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Random fashion thoughts

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by thekunk07, Aug 1, 2009.

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  1. Parker

    Parker Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    "Sometimes the clothes do not make the man." - G. Michael, Freedom '90
     
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  2. ridethecliche

    ridethecliche Senior member

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    "All the other kids with the pumped up kicks."
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2014
  3. BreezyBirch

    BreezyBirch Senior member

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    "It's gotta be the shoes." - Spike Lee
     
  4. Mr. Moo

    Mr. Moo Senior member

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    Also... Fuuma?

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. ghostface

    ghostface Senior member

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    Some interesting responses so far. (And @KingJulien, I don't at all mind the diversions, which are interesting in themselves.

    I just wanted to say a couple of things quickly, then will respond in more depth when I get some more time tonight (currently on the road).

    @gettoasty I hope you know that I would never presume to tell you what's real and what's not, especially given your unique relationship to reality :)

    I also wanted to clarify-- in case it wasn't clear from my initial post-- that I was not advocating the contrasts I was discussing, especially in their stark form. I think the truth is more complicated than they suggest. I do think, however,that there are important issues in the vicinity of those contrasts, and I was curious if others felt similarly. So far, I get the impression that the answer is, with some exceptions, "basically no".

    @conceptual 4est hey, I'm all for wearing dope shit. It's just that I think it's also interesting and worthwhile to think about what's behind our interest in wearing dope shit, and about how that interest fits into our more general efforts to...er...be dope people.
     
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  6. conceptual 4est

    conceptual 4est The Classic Gentleman is Back

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    Yeah, I realized afterward that my post probably seemed very dismissive. I do think it's a valid sentiment though, or at least school of thought with regards to the clothes we love. I also think it's worthwhile (and fun) to chat about the points you bring up though. I started writing something up but I'm saving bits and pieces of it for a later post that you guys might see.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2014
  7. futuresailors

    futuresailors Senior member

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    I think it's part of human nature to be interested in clothing in one way or another (aesthetically, functionally, etc). We don't have fur; we don't have bright plumage; we have evolved to need clothing to fill the functional roles that other animals posses physical attributes for. The headdress worn by a tribesman on the African savannah, the sweatsuit worn by a coal miner in his off hours, and some "dope ass jawnz" are all serving similar roles in that they're physical manifestations as necessitated by our environment. Since we inhabit different environments, both natural and built, the form and function of our clothes might differ, but the fundamental basis for having and needing clothing is a shared human characteristic. So if you look at clothing as an element of human evolution, wearing dope shit is the equivalent of an individual determining their own evolutionary path. Moreover by supporting the creation of dope shit you're also playing a small role in the general evolution of people in your environment. Like finches in the Galapagos.

    The ethics of fashion are related, but with an abundance of variables that you'd have to take in to account if you based your ethics on a cost/benefit analysis. Fashion is an industry, so buy clothes supports the jobs and people within said industry. Benefit. Experts/craftsmen/artisans/insert-other-skilled-title-here generally have a role in the creation of dope jawnz, so your purchase supports both the profession in the present and for posterity. Benefit. But you could get a leather jacket for $50 from Walmart and use the saved money to build a school in Africa. Cost. But if you buy the $50 jacket from Walmart you just blinded some child working in a tannery in Kuala Lampur because they got tannin splashed in their eye. Cost. But dangerous and underpaid factory jobs are the only reason that family has enough income to sustain themselves. Benefit? And so on. The ethics of it come down to how much an individual considers the variable and the weight put on each.

    But to succinctly answer the question, I don't feel it's an entirely worthless pursuit for both the usual egotistic reasons (you feel good when you're dressed well) as well as the "philosophy" described in paragraph one. And I avoid it becoming an ethical dilemma by only buying dope jawnz secondhand, thus literally cutting costs without losing any perceived benefits.

    Don thy dopest vestments for the glory of mankind.
     
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  8. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Queasiness over vanity contributes to how interest in clothing is perceived, but I think a lot of it also has to do with projection of social class and status. With the rise of the middle class over the last two hundred years or so, it has become less and less acceptable for wealthy people to flaunt their wealth and/or assert some kind of sovereignty of nature over less wealthy people. Wearing expensive clothes, even if you appreciate them for their aesthetic value rather than the social signals they send, signals to others that you are wealthy. But "others" need not include everyone. Much of the churning cycle of fashion has to do, in my view, with to whom exactly you can signal either your "coolness" or your money or both. You can appreciate the beauty of a painting or a mountain without owning one, and that appreciation does not come with implicit support of a social structure. Hardy Amies said that wearing a suit and tie is a necessary and sufficient condition for supporting primogeniture. That's taking it a little far, but he has a point.

    Regarding Pascal's "imaginary" and "real" existence, I think it's a false dichotomy. Or at least, if you think you've found your one true self, you're a far more enlightened being than I will ever be. The stories and characters that have had the most profound effect on me at various points in my life - Midsummer Night's Dream, The Count of Monte Cristo, Batman - are concerned with the malleability of identity. How our fantasies interact with our realities, in which one we are most ourselves, which is more fulfilling, if one can become the other, or if there's any way to tell them apart at all. Clothes represent one way that you can bend your identity, or a cue to yourself to inhabit a particular role. One you give up the idea of a core true self that your clothing hides, you can think of clothing as a reagent in this process rather than an inhibitor.
     
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  9. KingJulien

    KingJulien Senior member

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    We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. (Vonnegut)
     
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  10. nicelynice

    nicelynice Senior member

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    There's only a few bars in this song that actually reference the problems that money create, I think only Biggie raps about how the feds are investigating him. Mase and Puff Daddy just talk about more money
     
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  11. indesertum

    indesertum Senior member

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    i know i've said before that true detectives was too boring for me


    just finished third episode and holy shit it's awesome. took me like 6 tries to get through the first episode but now it has it hooks in me
     
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  12. Bam!ChairDance

    Bam!ChairDance Senior member

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    Get ready to be disappointed after ep 5 :( :( :(
     
  13. Mr. Moo

    Mr. Moo Senior member

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    you cray
     
  14. sinnedk

    sinnedk Senior member

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    its slow but it does a lot of character development and focuses on a lot of things other than the crime
     
  15. e0d9n0b5

    e0d9n0b5 Senior member

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    the only disappointing part of TD to me was the final episode.
     
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  16. noob in 89

    noob in 89 Senior member

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    derp


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  17. basil rathbone

    basil rathbone Senior member

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    This is an old-fashioned way of thinking about things, IMO. Work smarter, not harder.

    Using myself as an example, I worked with my back FOR someone - $x/hr. I decided I wanted to work a little bit more with my brain and for myself and followed a "passion" - suddenly $5x/hr with less than half the hours, with almost no overhead aside from fun toys I would buy otherwise. During this self-employment, I've found another niche in the same field and am in the process of hiring an employee or two to do the grunt-work instead of me - if all works out - $20x+/hr. (all just rough ballpark numbers)

    I'll be spending a year abroad in a few months here, and I should be making similar money to what I am now while working an hour or so per day on a different continent. Say I eventually franchise out, which is eventual goal, my $/hr will really be infinite since I will be making money without working.

    Every step, I have worked less hard and made more. More money = more servitude is myopic and depressing. It used to be that way maybe, but not anymore. True for layers, doctors, engineers, etc perhaps, I wouldn't know.

    I don't make much money compared to many posters here or compared to many of my friends in engineering, oil/gas, banking, etc. Probably less yearly than most university grads my age. But I make as much $/hr while working way fewer hours, which allows me time to work on art maybe, or waste it on online message boards maybe :). During the summer, I can work for 10-12 and spend 12-3 at the beach reading and swimming, which I often do. $/hr buys freedom, not $/year. Work smarter, not harder. Not advice to you or anyone, just something I believe.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2014
  18. ChetB

    ChetB Senior member

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    Kind of surprised there's not a dedicated Margiela thread.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2014
  19. magicalporks

    magicalporks Senior member

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    On a somewhat unrelated note- good news: got a gig in Tokyo and will be cosplaying a salaryman for the summer, whoo! Bad news: probably not getting paid enough to both eat and buy clothes... [​IMG]
     
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  20. RegisDB9

    RegisDB9 Rico Suave

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    It would probably just be me and you Chet haha. When I first came here in 2010 Margiela was wither "boring" or "fake", "not Margiela", "design team sucks" etc

    Can't compete with this anyways : http://maisonmartinmargiela.tumblr.com

    On the topic

    Maison Martin Margiela X Mykita

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    Last edited: Apr 9, 2014
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