Random fashion thoughts

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by thekunk07, Aug 1, 2009.

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  1. hendrix

    hendrix Ill-proportioned

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    No, it doesn't mean doctors are stupid just that it's a technical pursuit and not something matching what you're expected to do in graduate circles; challenge commonly held notions and come up with knowledge of your own.
    It seems to me that this is correct but then I have never been to med school. I imagine many people hold this opinion of law school as well, and they could not be more wrong, so... anyone a med student?
    Yeah it used to be that anyone human sciencey would do a med degree then do research afterwards or whatever, or doctors would do research after they got sick of clinic. People like Craig Venter were pretty common (guy was a doctor, then said "i can save more lives doing science" so started working on the genome project). Now most of the research comes from people who did science degrees undergrad and postgrad. Many universities now have BSc Biomed at undergrad and postgrad levels (i'm doing my masters in Biomedical Sciences). Or something similar. Doctors still do a lot of the epidemiology though
     
  2. the shah

    the shah Persian Bro #2 and enabler-in-chief

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    a lot of epidemiology and clinical studies depend on existing methods developed by mathematicians and then adapted by bioinformaticians and implemented by computer scientists / programmers. so i think that was the point regarding the lack of novelty
     
  3. hendrix

    hendrix Ill-proportioned

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    nah, it's just that epidemiology isn't really a science.

    the people who make the big discoveries like new drugs, animal models for disease, vaccines, cures for diseases, treatments for diseases etc etc etc are all scientists, not doctors.
     
  4. hendrix

    hendrix Ill-proportioned

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    A doctor is a bit like a computer technician in that someone comes in with the problem. The doctor has to diagnose the problem and then fix it, using the current prescribed knowledge and techniques.

    the scientists are the ones who come up with the knowledge and techniques
     
  5. the shah

    the shah Persian Bro #2 and enabler-in-chief

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    A doctor is a bit like a computer technician in that someone comes in with the problem. The doctor has to diagnose the problem and then fix it, using the current prescribed knowledge and techniques.

    the scientists are the ones who come up with the knowledge and techniques


    i asked if the janitor, another tradesman, could handle my op as i didn't feel like paying the excess premium for having Tweedledee M.D. do the arthroscopic surgery
     
  6. hendrix

    hendrix Ill-proportioned

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    you'll probably have the same results as if you asked your doctor to fix your plumbing...

    except your plumbing might be a little more important that your home's.
     
  7. the shah

    the shah Persian Bro #2 and enabler-in-chief

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    is this because of the floods ?
     
  8. hendrix

    hendrix Ill-proportioned

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    is this because of the floods ?

    yes.
     
  9. g transistor

    g transistor Senior member

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    New fleet foxes is booooooring.

    Also this week is going to be awesome, have some great floral prints + painted GATs coming in + big paycheck at the end of the week, school is getting increasingly easier, reconnected with some Miyazaki movies today, life is good.
     
  10. Razele

    Razele Senior member

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    Hendrix your so off the mark here [​IMG] Do you work yet? In a major hospital? There is a massive push over the last five years to get senior clinicians to do novell research (across all health spectrums) so I reassure you that seeing doctors as a trade who do no research is completely based out of reality, I've seen so much money wasted on research that goes nowhere because it doesn't directly benefit patients, that's why this initiative took wing, beneficiaries wanted thier money spent on reasonable gains. That's why there are over two hundred theories of psychosis but far less proven and accepted models towards recovery and rehabilitation, or techniques to facilitate this. Certain areas are really good at facilitating research and clinical practice (Drug And Alcohol is amazing) others not so much, but the push is huge across all areas. Anyway, attempt to get onto a surgical or medical specialty training program without having done research, I dare you. Then attempt to keep your training position and become a consultant without doing anything novell [​IMG] My old housemate was a doctor, my ex was one, I sat GAMSAT and was going to do med (hate healthcare so I'm bailing), so I've done my research on this.
     
  11. Razele

    Razele Senior member

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    Real RFT:

    Been slowing down my kops as I'm pretty done, only need a few more things and then just occasional kops, so I've picked up the culinary arts as my next hobby. (was going to do woodwork but no space for a few years)

    Making dope deliciousness is damn rewarding, will transition to fine living ASAP
     
  12. hendrix

    hendrix Ill-proportioned

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    Hendrix your so off the mark here [​IMG] Do you work yet? In a major hospital? There is a massive push over the last five years to get senior clinicians to do novell research (across all health spectrums) so I reassure you that seeing doctors as a trade who do no research is completely based out of reality, I've seen so much money wasted on research that goes nowhere because it doesn't directly benefit patients, that's why this initiative took wing, beneficiaries wanted thier money spent on reasonable gains. That's why there are over two hundred theories of psychosis but far less proven and accepted models towards recovery and rehabilitation, or techniques to facilitate this. Certain areas are really good at facilitating research and clinical practice (Drug And Alcohol is amazing) others not so much, but the push is huge across all areas.
    How much of this research is just epidemiology? I mean that stuff is still research, but it's not exactly drug discovery. It's useful and beneficial to society but these people don't actually go into the reasons or mechanisms for what they're seeing.
    Anyway, attempt to get onto a surgical or medical specialty training program without having done research, I dare you. Then attempt to keep your training position and become a consultant without doing anything novell [​IMG]
    Look there's a difference between pioneering a new surgical technique and discovering T cells. One's technology, the other is science. Sort of the same way that Engineers do research, it's not the same as Physicists doing research I'm not saying they're not doing any science, just that it's moving towards more of a separate field. It's not black and white, but if you want to get into medical research just doing BSc-hons-Phd is probably more relevant than an MD
     
  13. Razele

    Razele Senior member

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    Healthcare is funny.

    I think your view of clinicians is really black and white. The drip down effect from health research into actual patient gains is minimal from the research your talking about, sure we get lucky with somethings but we spend so much money on those hopeful topics that we neglect the actual patients themselves.

    I also think your underestimating how many clinicians do novell research into therapeutic techniques, psychosocial intervention, novel instruements, everyday practical techniques etc

    I mean for years and years, academics have pushed different models of psychotherapy and recently evidence that it's 50/50 the choice of therapy and how likeable the therapist is as to how effective the treatment is was published, due to the clinician research push.

    Also, another thing is how woefully rediculous drug trials are, it's such a stacked deck it's not funny, look at SSRI's and mild / moderate rated depression, look at how suicide isn't even investigated in drug trials (because they probably don't do anything LOL) look at metabolic disease in atypical neuroleptic agents with histamine antagonist properties, I can go on and on about how people are misrepresented into believing that pills are amazing. The effect of a zeitgeist in healthcare is terrifying.

    Just don't make black and white statements like that man, its rediculous.
     
  14. dwyhajlo

    dwyhajlo Senior member

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    Razele, what field do you work in currently?
     
  15. hendrix

    hendrix Ill-proportioned

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    Healthcare is funny. I think your view of clinicians is really black and white. The drip down effect from health research into actual patient gains is minimal from the research your talking about, sure we get lucky with somethings but we spend so much money on those hopeful topics that we neglect the actual patients themselves.
    What? How much do you think, say, PCR has affected healthcare? I actually think it's the opposite from what you're saying. Even a top Professor at a decent uni barely gets more than $100K, most clinicians make 3x that amount.
    Also, another thing is how woefully rediculous drug trials are, it's such a stacked deck it's not funny, look at SSRI's and mild / moderate rated depression, look at how suicide isn't even investigated in drug trials (because they probably don't do anything LOL) look at metabolic disease in atypical neuroleptic agents with histamine antagonist properties, I can go on and on about how people are misrepresented into believing that pills are amazing.
    That's great and this research is very valuable. I don't want it to sound like i'm undervaluing it. But most truly groundbreaking research will be done by full time scientists. By groundbreaking i mean that the person who cures AIDs is not gonna be a clinician. The person who figures out how memories are formed, how to cure allergies, how to cure cancers etc etc etc is gonna be some type of medical scientist, not a clinician who's doing part time research.
     
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