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Random fashion thoughts

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by thekunk07, Aug 1, 2009.

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  1. Fuuma

    Fuuma Senior member

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    This is a really recent development, the only trend except for the stupid preppy thing, that started as late as 2006. I bought a house and moved recently, and have been looking through my archived fashion magazines, lookbooks, linesheets, etc..., which date back to about 1999, and a lot of the Goth Ninja designers that date back past the last few years were either on some other trip, or were worn in completely "normal" ways. For example, I saw a few pictures of Carpe Diem boots worn with what looked like very cool track bottoms and some sort of white jean jacket, and CCP was making wierd clothes like turtlenecks that were meant to be worn with ties (2001, I think). Rye probably remembers all of this.

    I think that I'll blame Atelier, and their "all black" philosophy for the shitty pseudo-philosophical claptrap that seems to be popular with people who enjoy wearing all black, (see "French Intellectual")

    Rick Owens has been doing it forever, and Julius has been doing a flashier version of it too, but I remember that these designers used to be worn in less cartoonish fashion. Or sometimes, in ways that would make the stereotypical ninja goth cringe. Theodore Man in Beverly Hills used to carry Ann Demeulemeester, and it was clearly meant to be worn in a very LA rock-and-roll style. Haha. I want to see someone wearing an Ann Demeulemeester leather jacket with some True Religion jeans and Mark Nason boots and a True Religion fedora post on Stylezeitgeist.

    Meh, call me old and bitter.

    Edit: Oh crap, I just remembered that back in 2002 or so, there was no Undefeated, or rather, the pair that owned KBond was just starting it. Shit, no Nom de Guerre either.


    Editorials have styled this either the way you describe or in a very dark way depending on the years, the "goth ninja" aesthetics is up or down but brands remain. In 2006 goth was big, it was back 2 seasons ago. In between they style differently but Ann, for example, remains pretty consistent over the years. Of course I'd argue she's NOT goth-ninja in any way....
     
  2. Fuuma

    Fuuma Senior member

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    I often wonder that. But I think they just eschew labeling themselves. After all, they aren't really part of a fad or trend--they are each special flowers.
    Well there are about as many people who differ from that style as those who conform to it so it would be stupid to call the forum "goth-ninja". If you look at Hobo (new member, Polyanna's owner Marc) you can't really say he's goth-ninja. Knowing him a little bit I'd say he's more of a biker/UK bum/fan of artisanship all rolled into one. There's some menace but it's not goth and definitely not ninja.
     
  3. mulansauce

    mulansauce Senior member

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    I wasn't speaking about the forum as a whole (or even at all)--just the folks who happen to subscribe to the goth-ninjaish aesthetic. That's what I think cow was asking: Since "goth-ninja" is usually used as a pejorative, what do the goth-ninja types (regardless of their forum affiliation) actually call their own style?
     
  4. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Editorials have styled this either the way you describe or in a very dark way depending on the years, the "goth ninja" aesthetics is up or down but brands remain. In 2006 goth was big, it was back 2 seasons ago. In between they style differently but Ann, for example, remains pretty consistent over the years. Of course I'd argue she's NOT goth-ninja in any way....

    Yeah, I remember all the editorials for FW06 for about vampires. iirc Dior Homme did a lot of capes and cloaks. Of course, you don't find guys buying lock stock into such an extreme image unless it is brilliantly merchandised, and for this I blame Atelier (Archive is really Johnny come lately.) I blame Atelier for a whole bunch of guys styling themselves like anime villains and writing as though they were Ask Andy refugees who got way too deep into Goethe.

    Disclaimer, I like Atelier and the stuff they sell, though I like Alan Bilzerian's eclectic presentation better.
     
  5. Fuuma

    Fuuma Senior member

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    I wasn't speaking about the forum as a whole (or even at all)--just the folks who happen to subscribe to the goth-ninjaish aesthetic. That's what I think cow was asking: Since "goth-ninja" is usually used as a pejorative, what do the goth-ninja types (regardless of their forum affiliation) actually call their own style?

    Why would they need a name? The brands and style is pretty well defined outside of the murky borders so everyone can identify it pretty well. I dunno, not really a goth-ninja myself. I'm dressed in full black now but it's Lanvin/CCP/RO so I'm not sure it counts.
     
  6. Fuuma

    Fuuma Senior member

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    Yeah, I remember all the editorials for FW06 for about vampires. iirc Dior Homme did a lot of capes and cloaks. Of course, you don't find guys buying lock stock into such an extreme image unless it is brilliantly merchandised, and for this I blame Atelier (Archive is really Johnny come lately.) I blame Atelier for a whole bunch of guys styling themselves like anime villains and writing as though they were Ask Andy refugees who got way too deep into Goethe.

    Disclaimer, I like Atelier and the stuff they sell, though I like Alan Bilzerian's eclectic presentation better.


    Well I'd blame the jap store and 2006 styling too but the way I see it:


    L'Ã[​IMG]claireur: artisanship/exclusivity/designer's designers
    The library: ballin', creative types
    Atelier: goth-ninja
    Bilzerian: who the fuck shops there?? Older guy I guess but they have a good buy, I just don't know who wears it. Boston is a style wasteland, Barneys couldn't sell fan favourite like Lanvin and Ann so forget about CCP and MA+
     
  7. thekunk07

    thekunk07 Senior member

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    i don't get ann d. too feminine. really don't get the appeal.
     
  8. Fuuma

    Fuuma Senior member

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    i don't get ann d. too feminine. really don't get the appeal.

    More romantic than feminine, older collections had an aggressive edge that is sorta getting diluted now. Last show I was at was weird cause the people that liked it were like gaylord Vogue editors and I while the goth-ninja raged. It was more Miami+boxing than 19th century poets.
     
  9. mulansauce

    mulansauce Senior member

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    Why would they need a name? The brands and style is pretty well defined outside of the murky borders so everyone can identify it pretty well. I dunno, not really a goth-ninja myself. I'm dressed in full black now but it's Lanvin/CCP/RO so I'm not sure it counts.
    No need for a name--I don't have any ready label for the way I dress either. I was just curious if there was some secret nomenclature I wasn't hip to since I don't lurk there too often. Also, I don't really discuss such matters outside fora, so I'm never quite sure how prevalent certain badges are outside the internets. For instance, if you were to mention the term "goth-ninja" to the staff of Atelier, would they have any idea what you were talking about (assuming they weren't internet savvy and had never visited SZ or SuFu, etc)?
     
  10. Nil

    Nil Senior member

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    Just saw their website. Looks like a good mix of stuff I'd actually like and douche wear. And they have like 3 store locations?

    It's mostly douche wear with a smattering of decent stuff. But seeing how douchebaggery is quite popular here and dressing well is not, a lot of the good stuff makes it to their outlet which is at least 50% off.
     
  11. Teger

    Teger Senior member

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    I don't understand ann d when IMO a lot of the stuff is meant to be really flowly, but people size down to oblivion
     
  12. thekunk07

    thekunk07 Senior member

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    if i read stories about raf simons and the first collections i saw were the last 2, i wouldn't get it.
     
  13. thekunk07

    thekunk07 Senior member

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    conversely, certain fora and certain peoples reaction that raf doesn;t like the direction he's going in are laughable. he has pretty clearly stated that he does.
     
  14. Fuuma

    Fuuma Senior member

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    No need for a name--I don't have any ready label for the way I dress either. I was just curious if there was some secret nomenclature I wasn't hip to since I don't lurk there too often. Also, I don't really discuss such matters outside fora, so I'm never quite sure how prevalent certain badges are outside the internets. For instance, if you were to mention the term "goth-ninja" to the staff of Atelier, would they have any idea what you were talking about (assuming they weren't internet savvy and had never visited SZ or SuFu, etc)?

    They visit sz, heck Rick Owens reads SZ! It's the first thing you find if you search for many of these designers or at least top 5. Ann doesn't give a fuck though so she just describes the overall feeling of a collection. I think last one was something like "feminine masculinity" or something, can't remember but it's just what she said after the show...
     
  15. Fuuma

    Fuuma Senior member

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    conversely, certain fora and certain peoples reaction that raf doesn;t like the direction he's going in are laughable. he has pretty clearly stated that he does.

    He sucks now, I only own one Raf piece anyway, never was my style. I like a lot of it though.
     
  16. thekunk07

    thekunk07 Senior member

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    can rarely find shoes, sneakers or boots i like. should either design some myself or not wear any. wear my fucking dick dunks every day
     
  17. thekunk07

    thekunk07 Senior member

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    he definitely sucks now but seems okay with it. have always liked his footwear, knitwear and outerwear best and none of them are any good anymore. hasn;t had a generally good collection since f/w 07/08, though s/s 08 was interesting conceptually IMO


    He sucks now, I only own one Raf piece anyway, never was my style. I like a lot of it though.
     
  18. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Well I'd blame the jap store and 2006 styling too but the way I see it:


    L'Ã[​IMG]claireur: artisanship/exclusivity/designer's designers
    The library: ballin', creative types
    Atelier: goth-ninja
    Bilzerian: who the fuck shops there?? Older guy I guess but they have a good buy, I just don't know who wears it. Boston is a style wasteland, Barneys couldn't sell fan favourite like Lanvin and Ann so forget about CCP and MA+


    I like L'Eclaireur - they merchandise MA+, CCP, etc... in a non-goth way.
    iirc, Alan Bilzerian has a huge fan following outside of Boston. Alan's buys are really amazing. It is the one store that I consistently learn something every time I've visited. I've not been to a store in the US that even comes close. Some stores in Europe are like that, but that is because there is a lot of European product that never sees American soil. I suppose that a European visiting a good Bloomingdales could probably say the same.

    Department stores, Barney's included, can't attract the level of SA that is required to sell stuff that is more escoteric than Rogue's Gallery, so they aren't able to sell CCP or MA+ outside of LA, SF, or NYC.
     
  19. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    More romantic than feminine, older collections had an aggressive edge that is sorta getting diluted now. Last show I was at was weird cause the people that liked it were like gaylord Vogue editors and I while the goth-ninja raged. It was more Miami+boxing than 19th century poets.

    The ninja goth are just as narrow as the Ed Hardy wearing bros. Ann is one of the original originals. I don't like every collection that I see, but her range is fantastic, and some people should STFU and try to understand what she is trying to do rather than bitch and piss. I passed on a great Ann D. jacket back in about 2001 that was going for $500 or so, and I still regret that (though I regret that non purchase less than I regret the Margiela rider's jacket non-purchase at around the same time.)
     
  20. XenoX101

    XenoX101 Senior member

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    +1 on Ann D, she is fantastic with layers and never ceases to amaze me with how relevant she makes such historical ideas of dress. Definitely wouldn't put her among the 'goth ninjas' and hate it when she is pigeon holed as such as it is insulting to her originality. Only designers I can think of that have done similar stuff are Robert Geller and Number Nine.

    The downside of being so unique however, is that it can be hard finding 'compatible' clothes or designers, i.e: dressing like a poet without wearing more than 1 ann d piece isn't so easy.
     
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