Random fashion thoughts - Part II (A New Hope)

[cyc wid it]

MyHabit is closing/merging with Amazon Fashion.

 

[dieworkwear]



What do you mean by symmetry? As in the analogy of Vetements is to ugly/experiment as math rock is to rock?

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

While I agree that "classical taste" is irrelevant, there will always be conservative taste in art that does not reference the classical, I believe most of this forum are conservative in taste as most fashion hobbyists should be, as I believe that I shouldn't wear ugly and overpriced clothes to help some designer make a point while I look like **** myself. And in my limited recollection of post 1900s art, I can't think of anything, no matter how deliberately ugly it seemed, that displayed no craft, nothing that said the piece was the product of skill and thought, as compared to a Titanic vetements shirt, which I could buy from a gift shop.

In my personal opinion I think everyone should be be more conservative in artistic taste, especially in fashion, so trends like vetements can't steal our money.

Edit: And also, the type of ugly Vetements tries to go for, from my impression, is not aesthetically ugly, but ugly in reference to lowbrow, as in the slipknot and DHL shirt. I would be more understanding if they were actual artists instead of fashion designers, but since they are designers and are selling ready to wear, I think it's atrocious that people are paying $500 for a DHL shirt.

The guy makes the argument here:

It’s ugly clothing. And I completely understand that taste is subjective and that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but there are certain objective underpinnings that can’t be denied. You’ve said that weird, exaggerated cuts show that someone is “into ​*proper*​ fashion” but human beings are instinctively attracted to symmetry and proportion. Classical architecture is built upon the same geometric principles that make it instinctively appealing.

Vetements opts for forced ugliness simply to set itself apart from the crowd. It relies on repulsing mainstream tastes to create a feeling of exclusivity, an illusion that ordinary people “don’t get it.” And it’s not that people don’t get it, it’s just ugly clothing. It’s not avant-garde, because it’s reactionary and contrarian and ultimately defined by the mainstream. Can you honestly say, hand on heart, that the brand’s clothing looks good to you?

Vetements is obviously a reaction to things before it, but that's also how fashion works. It's oversized, takes itself less seriously, more focused on everyday, streetwear pieces, etc. It's not about skinny fits, austere colors, conceptual clothes, etc. All the things that felt very serious and high-minded before is now being butted up against with sort of low brow, streetwear, playfulness.

That's obviously not as "intellectually" interesting, but it's also kind of the right "comment" at the right time.

As for conservative vs avant garde taste, conservative designs are often just a relative function of the avant garde. On the SWD side of this forum, people love EG and RO. On the CM side, those would be considered wwwaaayyyyy left field (seriously, even an EG Bedford jacket over there would freak people out). Once the avant garde stuff has been around for a while, it becomes conservative as the designs trickle to high street shops.

 

[accordion]

Ok, I'm not as conservative as Aleks, I don't believe good fashion is just symmetry and proportions. I'd like to see a unified vision and a strong aesthetic, preferably original. Vetements steals from low fashion for high fashion, that's not new nor is it done in an interesting way. High fashion has often been boring and stale, but it takes more than merely commenting on that to break the trend or be worthy of avant-garde.

I know nothing about CM so I guess I'm casually conservative. And as I've mentioned, I think that ready-to-wear fashion is very practical as in everyone should think about what they're getting for the money they pay, and Vetements ***** on that. I'm not here to buy clothes that may or not be important years down the line. I'm not buying a shirt I can get at a gift shop with no difference in design. I understand people want anything that defies the status quo and is seen as artistically important, but I know it's not that I won't consider it. My opinion.

edit: And also, what is more serious than buying clothes for their conceptual value rather than for how they look? There's nothing new or interesting here.

 

[dfagdfsh]

Does anyone have any recs for a lightweight windbreaker, plenty of pockets, slimfitting, with a packable hood? Need something for a summer vacation

 

[John-Galt]

Does anyone have any recs for a lightweight windbreaker, plenty of pockets, slimfitting, with a packable hood? Need something for a summer vacation

Arc'teryx Arc'teryx Arc'teryx Arc'teryx Arc'teryx Arc'teryx Arc'teryx Arc'teryx

 

[LA Guy]

Quote:
If looking for "really expensive", but less expensive right now, try Greg Lauren at Carson Street (https://www.carson-street.com/greg-...his-week/product/7646/fleecetentnomadcharcoal)

 

[eglbc]

That thing is insane. Not familiar with Greg Lauren, pretty amazing stuff, though not within budget even on sale.

 

[skitlets]

Someone please buy this so I don't.

https://www.carson-street.com/lemaire/shop/clothing/product/8041/collarlesscoat

 

[shoreman1782]

Some of the conversation about Vetements would make more sense if there was any sort of common understanding of the word "streetwear." 10 years in this forum and I still don't really understand what people mean by it. Or maybe I guess I usually understand what people mean but they use it to mean different things depending on context.

Related: phrasehate for "elevated streetwear."

 

[dfagdfsh]



Arc'teryx Arc'teryx Arc'teryx Arc'teryx Arc'teryx Arc'teryx Arc'teryx Arc'teryx

I don't want to spend valience money -- what's the best of the regular line ?

 

[Severisth]



Someone please buy this so I don't.

https://www.carson-street.com/lemaire/shop/clothing/product/8041/collarlesscoat

I'm glad someone took the temptation of the 48 away, but now I'm wondering if I could squeeze myself into a 46...

 

[OccultaVexillum]

If there were 52's I would've grabbed that and the suit coat. Instead I bought the soft jacket and cardigan.

I'm also surprised the zip blouson is sitting there. That's my "must kop" Lemaire piece of the season but I still haven't found a 52 in that colour.

 

[Blackmaged]

this is possibly the coolest piece that i've ever seen. @SuspensionPoint i take it you guys are no longer carrying ffixxed?

 

[Severisth]

I saw that one on Y!, looks so cool. Still sometimes regret not picking up that embroidered bomber.

 

[Fuuma]



A lot of postmodern art tries to redefine beauty. Or at least expand it beyond its classical definition. I think it's fine to say Vetement's clothes are ugly, but to hang the argument on symmetry seems silly. I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone nowadays with strictly classical tastes in art, fashion, music, etc. If the guy pressed a little harder, he could probably find a place where that guy likes stuff that isn't classical.

The argument about hype and novelty were OK, but you could peg that on anything in fashion at the height of its popularity. There's no reason to hate Vetements in particular for it. Unless you just want to say you hate overhyped things in general.

I know I keep coming back to this, but this again just seems like two people with two different sets of values talking past each other. One guy has a very pragmatic sensibility when it comes to clothes. He just wants to look good at the office, on dates, on vacation, etc. The other guy is a little more interested in concepts and ideas. If ideas don't interest you, then a lot of this stuff is going to look stupid.

Not necessarily saying I like Vetements one way or the other, but to even have a discussion, two people have to agree on those terms. How do they see clothes and what do they value (practical use, concepts, artisanal merit, etc).

The fault line happened even before (during modern art) and didn't wait for contemporary art (what you call postmodern art). This is an old and tired debate. Everyone likes modern art now, even though the general public is suspicious of contemporary art, mainly seeing it as a fraud. Of course, as you point out, it doesn't expand to all aspects of someone's life but only to certain ones. I'm somewhat classical in my food taste. Hell I prefer macarons that don't mix weird bitter flavours or whatever.