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Random fashion thoughts - Part II (A New Hope)

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by LA Guy, May 15, 2015.

  1. Parker

    Parker Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Haha! Totally.
     
  2. il_colonnello

    il_colonnello Senior member

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    Sure, but my point was how does all that square with his appointment at Calvin Klein? You can't have your cake and eat it. There is a little inconsistency between yearning for a past when fashion, including his own work, was restricted to a small circle of super-committed freaks, and accepting what's probably one of the world's highest paid jobs in mass-market fashion. Arguably Calvin Klein is a mass-market brand if ever there was one. If he wanted to cater to a niche audience, Dior Couture was as niche as it gets, even though of course I realise that the niche audience of his own label ca. 1998 was not quite the same as Dior's in 2015.

    When he left Dior, he gave all the reasons you have enumerated and the whole industry went "oh yes he's so right, it's terrible what fashion has come to, the speed, the craze..." Then, he waits just long enough for his contractual cooling-off period to be over before accepting the next corporate top job. Perhaps he'll prove everybody wrong when he has actually been at Calvin Klein for a few years, but for now a lot of the people who nodded their heads so understandingly are wondering how any of this is going to be different at CK.
     
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  3. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    I really don't feel that there is any real danger in explicit commercial agreements, unless that's how little we are going to trust people's judgement.

    I think that the waters get much murkier when the sponsorship is NOT made explicit, (which is what the FTC is apparently going to be going after) and where there is not just an endorsement (I mean, if a moron thinks that a sports star wears Nike because it performs better than Underarmor, or vice versa, that moron is beyond the reach of critical thinking anyway), but something that masquerades as an objective review.
     
  4. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    It's not eating your cake and having it too. It's people not being entirely self-consistent, which translates into just being human. As a fashion consumer, he very possibly is disappointed with fashion as it is now. As a fashion designer, he might see the Calvin Klein job as an interesting challenge, or as a person who wants to eat well, he might just see that it's a pretty sweet job.
     
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  5. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Senior member

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    I don't know if he has to square it since he didn't create this environment. He's just working within it, complaining about what's happened to a thing he loved. If you say his work contributes to that environment, then arguably everyone in fashion is somewhat guilty because everyone contributes it to some way -- the journalists, editors, designers, financiers, shop owners, distributors, etc etc etc.

    Maybe everyone is culpable in some way, but since guilt is so widespread, I don't think it's unreasonable for people to complain about the environment and industry they work in.

    It's hard to do this any other way at this point. Meaning, even if Raf Simons wanted to completely opt out, do his own brand, and do this totally creative, slow-fashion way, it would be a hard business to sustain (esp at the kind of income that he probably needs to keep up his standard of living).

    There's an interview with Jeff Ng, owner/ designer behind Staple, somewhere. I'm too lazy to find it, but he talks about the problem being as such: it's no longer enough to design a good jacket. Once a jacket sells, to keep yourself relevant and in the same stores, you have to do the same jacket in ten different colors the next season. That's just how the seasonal calendar works. Although now, we have pre fall, pre holiday, pre whatever seasons in addition to the two-season SS/ FW calendar.

    I interviewed the designers behind Ten C, a somewhat "experimental" concept line, last year. They wanted to do this "forever collection," where they made eight jackets that were supposed to be the best in their class (the best field jacket or whatever) and would never change. That lasted for a few seasons, but then stores were like "in order to keep you on our racks, which is expensive real estate, we need you to introduce new stuff. Otherwise we're just going to pick up another brand and fill that with stuff loyal customers haven't seen." So, they made a few more designs, a few more colors/ materials, etc. And they've become another fashion brand, although not to the speed of Dior or whatever.

    There are some brands that are exempt from this, but they tend to be on the CM side of the board. Generally speaking, the fashion system forces designers to keep pace in order to stay relevant/ commercially viable. I don't think any of this would change if Raf designed for his own, small line or a big brand like CK. The system is way bigger than what he does. He's just complaining about it.


    I think it depends on what we mean by sponsorship. If we're talking about content creators, I think some sponsorships are inherently more honest than others. Disclosure is always better than not, but some types of sponsorships I would rather not see at all. If at all possible, anyway.

    Again, I think the practice of brands gifting an item for "review" is inherently problematic. Easy way around this: just return the item once you're done seeing it. If you use it in order to review it, then return the used item once you're done. The possibility of keeping things in exchange for creating content can inherently bias you to create a certain kind of content.

    That said, I know this space is still really new, people have different opinions, and I don't think things are as cut and dry as some people might think. I just think there are gradations of honesty here, and it's better to push content creators to be more honest than not (without also being so cynical as throwing your hands up and saying "they're all dishonest"). If you don't help build a space for good content, then all fashion media will just come from brand blogs and IG accounts, which is probably the worst of all scenarios. Even worse than the old crappy GQ model, which was rife with advertorials.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2016
  6. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    In other news, I called this early:

    http://nypost.com/2016/09/16/mode-media-screws-its-employees-on-the-way-out/

    For you guys who don't know already, Mode Media was the company formerly known as Glam Media. It was essentially an advertising agency/publisher hybrid that subcontracted to a network of bloggers. It was once valuated at a ridiculous $1B. I don't know that much about that much, but I do know that you need have essentially the entire world to be reading your stuff for your network of blogs to be worth $1B.
     
  7. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Content will not be created unless there is money for the content creators, and the brands, which fund the content being created, have found that funding content that is directly about their products gives a much better ROI than funding whatever the hell it is that some investigative reporter wants to spend months doing.

    I am not sure how any of this is going to pan out, but I think that it's important to note that the focus of journalism has been traditionally quite narrow, and that advertorials were common in reputable newspapers well into the 20th century.

    Re. the old GQ model, I don't dislike it as much as you do, possibly because I never saw them as anything more than what Mens no-no, or any number of Japanese, magazines, are, cover-to-cover ads that look cool. I'm not sure that I see the harm in that, as long as people use it for what it is intended as - a way to find things that look cool. tbh, back in the day, I used to look mostly at the ads, and maybe gawk at the cool clothes and the high prices, and that was it. I don't think that the style pages of GQ were ever meant to provide an "objective" POV, if that even has any meaning in the context of writing about fashion and style. Those who are really interested will look beyond that, and find more.

    If you are looking for consumer reviews, I feel that they don't even really make much sense in fashion, unless you are reviewing something with a very narrow function, like motorcycle protective gear. After all, there is no objective metric of cool, which is ultimately what fashion and style are about.

    Something like the forum are a little different. I don't regard ourselves as a publisher, in the traditional sense, though that is what the media world calls us now.
     
  8. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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  9. iamacyborg

    iamacyborg Senior member

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    Funny thing is, stuff like that is done purely for SEO, and not for any direct sale objectives.

    Incidentally, the online gambling/forex/etc sites are a complete shitshow of dishonest marketing, particularly when it comes to affiliates who don't disclose their working relationships with the brands they're promoting.
     
  10. Grintricha

    Grintricha Senior member

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    Are liberties moving away from menswear? If you go to their new site I cannot find an easy way to browse their listings, it is all just accessories.
     
  11. shoreman1782

    shoreman1782 Senior member

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    Quote:
    We're all super sophisticated consumers here and so obviously not morans. But this kind of marketing succeeds because most people are morons not paying so much attention, not because they're stupid but just because they're casual consumers of X, whether that's fashion or liquor or travel. They don't have the time to join a forum develop a knowledgeable peer group, and they don't necessarily differentiate between advertorial and editorial. It works on those people, and those people are most people.




    Good discussion btw, SF needs to sponsor a traveling fuuma lecture series (with a wine pairing, preferably)
     
    4 people like this.
  12. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    That type of marketing succeeds, yes. However, I think that it's a stretch to think that it succeeds because a consumer thinks: "David Beckham is wearing this, so it must be good (in some 'objective' manner.)" Rather, I would guess that the thinking is "Oh, yeah, that looked good on David Beckham. I want that." The motivation for that consumer is to look cool like Beckham, natural good looks, athletic build and ability, and wealth and fame, aside. I don't see this as deleterious or dishonest.

    If someone wants to get the safety rating on a Lincoln, maybe they'll look for online reviews, or the Blue book, or whatever. I really don't think that something like this is ever seen as a substitute. It just builds a cool narrative:

    [​IMG]
     
  13. cyc wid it

    cyc wid it Senior member

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    Story time: Mulberry's RTW has never sold well, especially in the states. Kate Middleton once wore a Mulberry cape/coat out and it immediately sold out in the US. Kim Kardashian wearing the SLP SL1 sunglasses has caused them to repeatedly sell out in the states. Look at the celeb JE hype. Tons of people walk into boutiques with pictures of celebs and say "I want that".
     
  14. KingJulien

    KingJulien Senior member

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    http://www.toscanoboston.com/ - straightforward but good italian, kind of a more formal sit-down date spot that I'm not sure I'd actually take a date to

    http://www.barakacafe.com/ - algerian / tunisian, no alcohol though

    http://www.theloniousmonkfish.com/ - pretty good sushi, often has a jazz band

    Santarpio's - best pizza in the city I think, near the airport. Dirty floors, only serves like Rolling Rock and Budweiser and has old school italian-american waiters, but it's great if you're in the mood

    http://www.sinclaircambridge.com/ - I've never bothered with their food, but if you want a drink during the day they have a really nice roof deck and one of the best bloody marys in the city
     
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  15. the shah

    the shah Senior member

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    Headed to london in few days , anybody around wanna have some afternoon tea :D
     
  16. hennree

    hennree Senior member

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  17. oulipien

    oulipien Senior member

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    Drink, Backbar, Lord Hobo (in Cambridge) and Deep Ellum (in Allston) are all good.
     
    2 people like this.
  18. oulipien

    oulipien Senior member

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    Apologies if this is untoward, but the recent discussion has me wondering how Styleforum itself makes money (assuming it does).
     
  19. the shah

    the shah Senior member

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    This whole forum thing is actually a front for a dark web server on which Fok runs a completely unregulated black market where you can acquire ... unmentionables :eek:

    Think about it. Styleforum is an anagram of Fuel My Tors . Onion router running amok. Who knows what sort of perverted buyers and sellers there are, imagine combing B&S, dumb threads, and CE...pretty sure that explained the manifestation of Miran. And where Drew Keith took his $8M in Bitcoin.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2016
    29 people like this.

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