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Random fashion thoughts - Part II (A New Hope)

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by LA Guy, May 15, 2015.

  1. Fuuma

    Fuuma Senior member

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    Were the Ramones trying to sell my a VansonXJunya leather though, they just went to a store and bought regular American made jackets yrs ago without any strategy from the brands.Sure the culture n a wider way influences our choiuces but that just isn't the same.
     
  2. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    It's not racist. Some cultures just have more developed cultures of the cult of personality. And selling in different cultures is simply different. How something is marketed in China vs. Japan vs. the USA are all, by necessity, different.
     
  3. baltimoron

    baltimoron Senior member

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    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2016
  4. winston86dit

    winston86dit Senior member

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    But aren't those people making money as well? Influencers (bloggers, Instagram celebrities, you tube stars, etc) typically work out some kind of deal in advertising based upon the number of hits. So while every #influencer may not get paid or even get that much free swag, it's generally linked to the amount of #influencer power they have.

    Also, in technology today, there's direct ways of linking what an influencer is capable of doing for a brand. Be it re-directs to a brand's website, sales generated after that, etc. There's metrics for all of that. So if it wasn't working, it would actually be measurable, for the most part at least. But this is mainly talking about web-based #influencers, not necessarily about others who maybe have a big following but aren't very big online.
     
  5. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Senior member

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    You can have honest fashion media though, where people disclose their relationships.

    It's hard to navigate the current media world using old media rules because marketing isn't exactly the same. We don't always have clean "layouts" where it's clear that advertising is on this column and editorial is on this column. We have things like Instagram, for example, where it's just a photo. And those IG accounts aren't run by a huge company where there's separate ad and editorial depts (useful for keeping interests separate); it's the same person.

    But you can have better and worse degrees of honesty. What that means is still developing, but take it to the extreme -- if you have totally unabashed shilling, people lose trust in your opinion. It's just shilling at that point. There is a lot of fashion media I consume that doesn't really affect my decisions at all because I know that person is a mouthpiece for a brand. There's other fashion media I consume that I take more seriously, because I trust that person's opinion. Trust is really at the heart of it, and once you completely sell out to a brand, you break that trust with your audience.

    There's stuff now that's just so, so bad. People not only taking free products to write or photograph something, but nowadays, asking that they be paid to create content. So it's not just the free product, it's also getting paid to write/ shoot something. How can anyone's opinion be trusted in that kind of environment?

    I think disclosures help, but the strict boundaries around this stuff is still being worked out, IMO. The one site I write for, Put This On, we have a policy where any product reviewed has to be returned (I ask for companies to pay for return shipping). I think that's a good policy.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  6. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Senior member

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    I don't see why the dynamic is any different, to be honest. If Lewis paid the Ramones to wear the jacket, you probably would have still bought it. Or at least many people would. At this point ,that's what's happening with Kanye. Adidas paid him to promote their shoes. He wears it; kids buy it. It's an old, old dynamic (dress like your cultural heroes). It's just that fashion companies are now directing that behavior instead of having it develop organically.
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. winston86dit

    winston86dit Senior member

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    Isn't transparency in advertising what the below is for?

    https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/bus...tcs-endorsement-guides-what-people-are-asking
     
  8. Fuuma

    Fuuma Senior member

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    Well we wear chucks in large parts because of the ramones but they wore keds, that's kinda where I'm going there. Also wo kind of idiot puts Kanye's style at that level? Ok I'm kidding pop culture is pop culture, hierarchies are horizontal not vertical so I may have absorbed them but I don't truly believe in them when I put on my social sciences hat.

    note: all typing mistakes are wine related. Sowwy
     
    1 person likes this.
  9. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Senior member

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    Yea, but realistically nobody follows that and it's never prosecuted. And fashion media is somewhat international (although still mostly based in the US). For IG, some of the biggest influencers are abroad.

    I think there are biases all over the place if you're creating content. Maybe you're friends with the owner of a brand, or you get your info some X source and don't want to break relationships. So even if you're not taking money or whatever, you might still have your biases. It's hard to create completely objective content, but you can be better or worse at your work.

    I know some content creators who will literally say anything if you pay them. In fact, some won't even say anything until they're paid -- meaning, even if they like what you do, they won't promote you until you pay them. It's ridiculous.

    If you're creating content, I think the best you can do is try to be as honest as possible. I work for a guy who takes media professionalism really seriously, so I think that's helped me learn the importance of this stuff, but for some guys who are just starting out, I think it's really easy to slip and let your opinions be swayed by all sorts of things.

    One of the worst things to come out of this, I think, is a cynical part of the internet who think everything is shilling. It's like extreme political groups who think every politician is corrupt because a few have been caught. It creates a lot of disillusionment and cynicism that I think then makes it hard to create any kind of content, even good stuff.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2016
  10. Fuuma

    Fuuma Senior member

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    Anyone who sees corruption as an individual problem shouldn't have an opinion anyway, they're not at the level for it. I remember being asked by a pol (now prime minister) to talk about ethics and corruption to some young peeps and I asked him if he thought his people were born more corrupt than swedish people, we did have an "interesting" conversation. Thereis a fashion system and it favours shilling. I know people who spend alltheir time parting and pushing for journalists to put their clients products in mags, what do you think happen, it is allone big fashion orgy.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2016
  11. cyc wid it

    cyc wid it Senior member

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    FWIW the people who make bots for buying hyped sneakers now make bots for Kylie Jenner lipkits.
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Senior member

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    I agree there are all sorts of problems, but instead of being cynical about the whole system, I think people should ask: how do we get the best content possible? There has to be a way for content creators to get paid (otherwise, they stop creating), but also have it done in a way that allows for honest content.

    Again, I don't think people should think of this as a black and white problem (pure content vs evil shilling). Basic human relationships (Putnam social capital kind of stuff) creates biases in itself. The question is how can we get the best media possible. Old fashion magazines like GQ were terrible. I think blogs, IG, forums, etc are much better at creating fashion media. The question is how to make sure we get the best out of them, preserve trust, and make sure people are being honest.

    That's a much more worthwhile discussion than saying "It's all evil shilling, screw them all, I'll never pay attention to that stuff." I suppose fine if people take that route, but no audience means no content, which means ... I don't know. I guess people then just get their "media" direct from brands? That seems like the worst of all outcomes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2016
  13. Krish the Fish

    Krish the Fish Senior member

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    My girlfriend bought some Kylie Jenner lip kits for her sister (who's a senior in high school) and tried one of them. Apparently it made her skin break out. So there's that. I don't get the hype, but then again I'm also bourbon chasing this fall so who am I to talk.
     
  14. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    I like Jesse, but I have issues with what I perceive to be his overly strident way of doing things. I think that the real issue that I have with Jesse's POV is that I don't fundamentally believe that there is fashion "journalism". I mean, once in a while, yes, you have a real investigative piece on some company abusing workers, or whatever, but c'mon, to call fashion writing journalism is really over-elevating its importance.

    Yes, there should be a degree of professionalism. I personally feel that our guidelines (which are essentially - no reviews paid for in cash or in kind) and the FTC guidelines, are pretty adequate, and should be followed. IMO, going beyond that is trying to elevate wrtiing about what is fundamentally a pretty frivolous topic to the fourth estate, which is important to political discourse, much less so in discussions of whether Kiton is better than Attolini, or whether Rick Owens is awesome, or sucks, or whether Kanye is a genius, an idiot, or an idiot savant.
     
  15. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Incidentally, and I just got this today, but we get this stuff all the time, and I am sure that other publications do as well:


    Quote: How are you?

    I came across your excellent gaming site: http://styleforum.net

    How much would it be for an article placement with a do-follow link to a leading gaming/casino brand in the main content area of the article, taking into account the 3 points below:
    • We will get the content written. The content will be of excellent quality and will fit the topic/nature of your site.
    • The article is not marked as sponsored and will stay on the site permanently even if it rolls over into the archives.
    • We will pay you via Paypal once the article is live.
    Please update me with a price and will speak to the client ASAP.

    Thanks so much.


    Regards,


    We would clearly never go for this, for any number of reasons. But stuff like this is pretty prevalent online.
     
  16. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Senior member

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    I know what you mean, and I struggle with the idea of fashion journalism as well, but in actual policy, I think Jesse has a really good sense for media ethics. There's stuff I've disagreed with him in the past, only to come back and realize that he's right. I don't think he's strident in actual policy, but he takes media professionalism really seriously. Whether he and I would disagree on the idea of "fashion journalism," I don't think he's been wrong about how to create honest media -- at least as honest as you can get it in this new space. It's not perfect, but better than what happens elsewhere (free products and money explicitly exchanged for positive reviews/ endorsements).
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  17. Parker

    Parker Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    ^ Can't belive I haven't read that. Just bought. -- Also what are you drinking!? :)
     
  18. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Senior member

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    #influencer!
     
    5 people like this.
  19. RegisDB9

    RegisDB9 Rico Suave

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    I decided to go down the Margiela rabbit hole becuase of one picture:

    [​IMG]

    Margiela used to have an archive on their site.....and now look at me
     
    2 people like this.
  20. Rais

    Rais Senior member

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    Really enjoyed reading the last few pages of discussion. This is why I will always prefer forums/message boards as my social media of choice. I found Instagram so boring.
     
    1 person likes this.

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