Random fashion thoughts - Part II (A New Hope)

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by LA Guy, May 15, 2015.

  1. BostonHedonist

    BostonHedonist Senior member

    Messages:
    1,712
    Likes Received:
    734
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2011
    Location:
    London
    Knowing I'm being bated, I'll give the request the benefit of the doubt.

    I suppose, at its core, it's a subjective matter of taste. I recognize this. But I prefer fits that flatter a given body type - that are about the person inside the outfit and not the outfit itself; more style-oriented than fashion-oriented. There's a point at which style crosses over into fashion-victim-land (with fashion-obsessed-land as a midpoint), and I think Kanye's looks and a lot of these super-baggy looks cross it. Apart from being impractical to manage all that excess fabric, it just casts a completely blah silhouette.

    Of course, someone could say that being dressed in what may as well be a cashmere potato sack is flattering to a certain body type. It's subjective, right? But I'd still disagree. There's wearing something a size too big for comfort, and there's whatever is going on here. Probably the perspective that doesn't care for the over super-sized look is a little more informed by traditional norms regarding an attractive silhouette.

    As a side note, I once had a sociologist explain to me (though I can't say I'm inclined to take it as fact) that the "baggy" look, which originated from urban minority groups, was - in its essence - a form of rebellion against the traditional looks of the white elites. I don't know if that's presumptuous or accurate, but there's an inkling of irony to it all...
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2015


  2. kindofyoung

    kindofyoung Senior member

    Messages:
    4,101
    Likes Received:
    7,156
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2012
    Location:
    Uppsala, Sweden
     


  3. toothsomesound

    toothsomesound Senior member

    Messages:
    5,124
    Likes Received:
    429
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2008
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    

    I'd argue things that fit in an oversized way can and do flatter the body. Sure, sometimes the outfit can overtake the person; of course the same effect can happen with more fitted clothing, though I suppose since we are more accustomed to things that aren't dramatically oversized you could argue that might happen less frequently. I don't really think it can be quantified though...in fact I'd say lots of people on this forum wear fitted clothes that are pretty unnatural and the clothes end up wearing them. I actually think a relaxed look is way easier and more frequently more flattering.

    :uhoh:

    'baggy' clothing did not originate with 'urban minority groups'..
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2015


  4. BostonHedonist

    BostonHedonist Senior member

    Messages:
    1,712
    Likes Received:
    734
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2011
    Location:
    London
    Yeah I'm neither a sociologist nor a fashion historian. That was coming from some ivory tower university academic more than a decade ago. Clearly the guy'd never seen pantaloons.


    But yeah, it's totally easier to look good in a relaxed fit. Just throw on a white tee shirt and some normal-ass jeans. Not going to offend anyone there. Keeping everything perfectly fitted requires a good tailor (or two) and staying the same size. Still, there's 'relaxed' and there's five-sizes-too-large with sleeves to your knees.
     


  5. GoldenTribe

    GoldenTribe Senior member

    Messages:
    3,673
    Likes Received:
    1,969
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    

    You don't have to be interested in it, but what little Michael Bastian I have encountered is relatively normal clothing for real life -- very expensive, unexciting, but well-made and wearable. It's more CM than SW&D (which is not a judgment and should not be), but I don't limit myself to one of the two camps and then assume the other is an antagonist. If skin-tone stretch onesies and derivative oversize jackets are "saying something," then not only is that something I don't want to say, let alone spend money saying, it's something that's been said before (and better) and doesn't need to be repeated by Kanye West or anyone else who is going to fail so overtly to bring anything new to the conversation besides self-importance.

    I don't see how "pretty gross" applies in a meaningful way to innocuous preppy menswear except perhaps as an uninvited cultural judgment, but I don't mind saying Kanye's creations to date are both "gross" (as in ugly) and deeply uninteresting to me, and evidently to a lot of other people who exist outside of his bubble of spotlight-obsessed bandwagoners. And that is not to say you fall into that group, but it is quite a large following at this point, hence the possibility ($$$) of Kanye's entry into fashion in the first place and the lack of reasoned criticism even from the anointed critics.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2015


  6. Severisth

    Severisth Senior member

    Messages:
    2,847
    Likes Received:
    2,668
    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    Location:
    Kansas City, MO
    

    We aren't interested in that here, abnormal clothing for hypothetical lives is all I wanna see
     


  7. nahneun

    nahneun Uncle Nephew

    Messages:
    8,233
    Likes Received:
    8,313
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2009
    

    they're the graphite dyed ones that re-porter was selling ;x
     


  8. toothsomesound

    toothsomesound Senior member

    Messages:
    5,124
    Likes Received:
    429
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2008
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    

    nah, I wouldn't align MB with CM at all. it's really just super cheezy clothes for white dudes, but isn't traditional men's tailoring, it's pretty squarely pseudo designer contemporary men's fashion. I like a lot of CM clothing and I even appreciate some of the mentality in that community, it's beautiful, (if at times a bit stodgy). it's ironic that you are defending Bastian, a CFDA prop up hack with an ongoing Uniqlo collaboration, and deriding kanye for fashion critics being uncritical (which I'd argue is not the case at all; even the articles you posted that you framed as accepting or congratulatory are full of justified criticisms).

    do i really need to start posting bastian look book pics here? kanye's fashion foray is a bit lowbrow but not that lowbrow..

    a more compelling argument in defense of mb is that perhaps what he does is a little bit tongue in cheek and contains some humor which is completely devoid from what kanye is doing.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2015


  9. toothsomesound

    toothsomesound Senior member

    Messages:
    5,124
    Likes Received:
    429
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2008
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    is there an official oversized clothes thread? maybe i need to start one
     


  10. notwithit

    notwithit Pullup laureate

    Messages:
    7,832
    Likes Received:
    5,465
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Location:
    New Gentrificationland
    

    So...I'm not going to argue against the ideas in Kanye's collection being interesting or relevant, but I don't know whether Todd Snyder is an apt comparison. I don't particularly think of Todd Snyder as a designer per se or as someone who has actual ideas behind his work at all; he mostly just churns out mid-level streetwear (mainline) and gym clothes - the kind you actually wear to the gym (Champion collab, PF Flyers).

    Don't get me wrong, I have a couple of unstructured jackets, a tank top, and a pair of gym shorts from Todd Snyder (one of the jackets is mainline, the rest of the stuff is Champion collab), and I like everything and wear it frequently. He's just not someone I would look to for thought leadership or relevancy. Unless it's related to gym clothes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2015


  11. Ken P

    Ken P Senior member

    Messages:
    1,786
    Likes Received:
    2,493
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2011
    Location:
    Boston
    

    Honestly it sounds like instead of celebrity-bandwagoning, you celebrity-bashing the collection. You seem to dislike Kanye and you want to take out that anger on the show. That doesn't really make you any better than the articles praising the collection because of his celebrity. As I said, it's a meh collection. I've definitely seen worse (what Toothsome was getting at with MB). If it didn't have Kanye's name attached to it would it get this much recognition - definitely not but you also probably wouldn't care enough to complaining about it here.

    Also, I agree with @notwithit Todd Snyder isn't really a designer - it's a company/brand. Just watering down workwear aesthetics and mass-producing in China to sell at Macy's. It's like J. Crew that you pay more money for and occasionally does cooler things.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2015


  12. toothsomesound

    toothsomesound Senior member

    Messages:
    5,124
    Likes Received:
    429
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2008
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    ^ eh, I don't think Todd Snyder would accept being called only gym wear, which would be a fair point except that parts of the fashion media circus treat him like a real designer; he does sell and show a full rtw collection and do a runway show etc...He's also very successful, so kudos to him for giving people what they want, I just think to quote a certain designer recently his brand is contributing to the 'broification' of fashion. glad you dig the garments though. I don't begrudge anyone for wearing certain clothes and getting joy and love and utility out of them. for my weird personal philosophical reasons i am opposed to certain brand identities but in the end it's all clothes and the more people have meaningful connections with the clothes, the better, I think.

    edit: more to the point, snyder again is favorite of the cfda because a) he is boring as shit b) he is commercially successful. the cfda continues to support designers like snyder and bastian while lots of young talented people with interesting ideas flounder...(obviously there is also something to be said here about commercial viability, even still, you'd hope that an organization supposedly dedicated to promoting young talent and creativity in the industry would, you know, try to do that a little...but then i guess you'd be naive).
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2015


  13. shoreman1782

    shoreman1782 Senior member

    Messages:
    8,751
    Likes Received:
    6,809
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2004
    Location:
    DMV
    I legitimately want to hear more opinions about the bro-ification of fashion
     


  14. Grintricha

    Grintricha Senior member

    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    19
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2015
    Location:
    London


  15. notwithit

    notwithit Pullup laureate

    Messages:
    7,832
    Likes Received:
    5,465
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Location:
    New Gentrificationland
    

    Pretty much sums up my experience (although all the stuff I have is made in Canada).



    Ok, nobody tell him I said that. :embar:

    Also, bully on the CFDA for favoring someone who used to design for J. Crew IIRC. Most of what I've seen of his mainline stuff is pretty backwards-looking, just GQ-approved updates to vintage-y designs (terrycloth harriingtons, perforated bombers). Some of it's nice, but I would hesitate to call it anything other than "just clothes".
     


Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by