Random fashion thoughts - Part II (A New Hope)

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by LA Guy, May 15, 2015.

  1. sipang

    sipang Senior member

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    But what cause ? Here's 200 something generic menswear pieces of clothing that you can wear as a woman. Also hats and backpacks !

    Not seeing how this push the gender conversation forward in any way.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2015


  2. Bam!ChairDance

    Bam!ChairDance Senior member

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    It's more the fact that it exists than the execution of it. I'm with you that it's a pretty transparent attempt to sell menswear to women. But that doesn't mean they're being sneaky about their goals or that it can't be something better down the line.

    edit: Also, I think you're looking at the "No Gender" section already with an open perspective of what menswear means. For other people (Goldentribe, etc), who come from a slightly more rigid perspective and see the Corner's garments as more feminine, the section wouldn't be quite as "wow this is all repurposed menswear"
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2015


  3. sipang

    sipang Senior member

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    The problem is that the whole gender neutral thing is dumb and pretty much always only goes one way as exemplified (consciously or not) by their selection, so if that's the frame of reference you're bound to hit a wall sooner than later (with things like feminine menswear however vague that is, maybe some flower prints, maybe flares...). It's not challenging in the least, it's nothing new.

    If they want to push the conversation forward maybe they should just do away with the 'men' and 'women' sections and let people work it out on their own. Of course this would be commercial suicide and so we're left with safe empty gestures.


    edit: I mean, it's cool if it broadens some people's perception of what menswear is but it's a far cry from what we were talking about.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2015


  4. Find Finn

    Find Finn Senior member

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    Flower prints? I have always seen the androgynous look as a fit thing.
     


  5. noob in 89

    noob in 89 Senior member

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    This is just one of the many built-in contradictions that would actually seem to reinforce the essentialness of what academics post Judith Butler have decided to call 'gender'. It's not as bad as the idea -- shared by violent Republicans -- that sexuality is "fluid", but it's still annoying.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2015


  6. Bam!ChairDance

    Bam!ChairDance Senior member

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    Yeah, this might be what interested me about the "no gender" section in the first place, the idea of doing away with gendered garments and allowing us to choose what works best for our bodies regardless of identity.

    Otherwise I agree with you and Noob, the discussion of things like "masculine womenswear" and "feminine menswear" just reinforce existing gender codes and, as you said, don't challenge much at all.
     


  7. Bam!ChairDance

    Bam!ChairDance Senior member

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    Can you expand on this? I've never seen the idea of sexuality as fluid as harmful and tend to agree with it myself (as does Rick Owens!)
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2015


  8. noob in 89

    noob in 89 Senior member

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    I mean, I believe that logic, reason -- "science" -- has things pretty much covered as far as sexual orientation goes. And that it's already in our favor. And I know it's more complex than I could ever treat it here. Unfortunately, the liberal arts take, that sexuality is 'fluid', that it even falls under our conscious control, and is therefore shape-able, is tantamount to the belief that sexuality is a choice.

    At least that's how the Cliff's Notes version reads -- but that's what people latch on to and remember.

    (ie fluid as 'born with certain traits that may or not ever find a venue to express themselves' vs. fluid as 'Judith Butler could conceivably decide to become a straight person')
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2015


  9. planetarium

    planetarium Senior member

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    The Corner made a marketing move by tossing the more voluminous pieces from their menswear buy into a new sorting category.

    The market likely to be browsing the site is going to lean affluent and neoliberal and thusly the move is less of a challenge and more of a piece of a clickbait; a potential customer sees it and says "look at this cool thing that agrees with something I half-heartedly support via reblogs" making them more likely to continue purchasing from The Corner because they view them as socially progressive; the act of consuming becomes "political" and pushes us further down the path of erasing any perceived need to reconsider consumption habits.

    It's incredibly transparent; if any monied, influential individual or organization wants to support a cause, they can do so directly with their resources.
     


  10. planetarium

    planetarium Senior member

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    I have never heard anybody correlate the fluidity of sexuality with the idea that orientation is a straight up choice. My proclivities shift along with my moods and influences as do those of the sexually healthy individuals I know.
     


  11. noob in 89

    noob in 89 Senior member

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    Come to a red state, sit-in on one of our fine university classes. :D
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2015


  12. planetarium

    planetarium Senior member

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    A willful misinterpretation of the concept in order to sell an agenda is something that nobody can fully protect their speech from.
    Sorry your red state university is selling hate.
     


  13. noob in 89

    noob in 89 Senior member

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    What is the concept, though? Many times, 'fluidity', as described by say, a liberal arts teacher as opposed to a scientist, is just as willful and fairy tale -ish as the belief that sexuality is a choice. Unfortunately, I think both sides (all sides?) obfuscate the issue, even when they have the best of intentions.

    And I don't mean to say that anyone is selling hate -- rather, it's weird what happens when students start trying to pin down what exactly a teacher means by fluidity. There's a lot of like, Oh, so you're saying it's a choice? -- Well no.... -- But you just said... -- etc. You tend to bump-up against a lot of contradictions, especially when these various issues cross-polinate. (For instance, in some cases, there is a natural world, discoverable by science. In others, science is just a narrative, not to be trusted, and reality -- including sexual reality -- is a changing set of rules discoverable only through competing French ideologies).
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2015


  14. planetarium

    planetarium Senior member

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    The concept is that humans have the potential for complex sexual desires and modes of expression and that they do not necessarily think one defines them at all times. This does not necessarily have to do with gender, theirs or their partner's, but it could.

    Some bears are only into other bears. Some doms only like being a dom. Other people find that their attraction to people and activities ebbs and flows. There's room for everything.
     


  15. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Alright, take it to CE.

    On a related random fashion thought. I don't care about TheCorner's new section, except that I find it funny that the "male" representative in the "No Gender" section is a very slim Asian dude with extremely youthful features and no facial hair. But w/e.

    I will be slightly annoyed if this means that I have to search 2 different top level categories.
     


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