Random fashion thoughts - Part II (A New Hope)

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by LA Guy, May 15, 2015.

  1. habitant

    habitant Senior member

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    I know, I'm just nostalgic! I think in the thread format there was more participation though. Now it's its own entity, difficult to engage potential buyers with.
     


  2. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Like I said, the "kopping" discussion is what people are interested in, so that's what they talk about. Styleforum was never exclusively about bespoke. Bespoke was a fun sideline, but it will always only have a very limited audience, for obvious reasons. RE. th Caustic Man thread, I was referencing his thread in SWD.

    As for "the golden years". I dunno. I've been hearing that since 2006, when we were featured in the NYT. Vox was seen as a newcomer with pretentions to something better than he was (and honestly, his stuff is mediocre compared to guys like Manton and Heismatt), and those guys passively aggressively clashed all the time.
     


  3. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Senior member

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    I just think the guys who bought bespoke contributed a lot to the discussion of how to dress well -- it wasn't just info about how to buy bespoke stuff.

    Anyway, people blame it on the shift to RTW kopping, but I think it's just really difficult to find guys like Manton, Iammatt, Will, RJ, RSS, etc. Those guys just had a lot more grounded experience with the coat and tie look, came from a certain background, and had preferences that weren't just largely driven by what they read on the internet.
     


  4. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Well, you can still talk have a discussion about it, but since it is no longer a flat discussion, yes, it's hard to get people talking. The listings are easier to browse though, and what people expect, as a minimum, in 2015. However, it's clearly not adequate for a variety of reasons.

    What I have up you may not like either, but it's more modern - a more visual way for people to browse B&S, make it more discoverable. That will hopefully attract more browsers, more signups, and then more buyers, and in turn make sellers more interested in posting more and more. We'll see how well that works. It's a gamble, but it's a good one, I think.
     


  5. cyc wid it

    cyc wid it Senior member

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    Runway tee.

    [​IMG]

    Supposedly done by hand.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2015


  6. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    I would agree with this, but it's fighting time. The fact is that people learn more and more on the internet. That's simply not going away. They learn from pictures on tumblr, or from conversations on Styleforum, or from a blog, which may or may not be particularly well written or well informed. At least on Styleforum and on a blog, there are words to accompany the pictures.

    Internet sales are up and up, and bespoke is... not so much. The barrier is high and the very idea of waiting 6 months for anything is becoming alien to people. Online MTM startups are cropping up more and more, and at very reasonable prices, and while they don't offer, in general, as good a fit as a bespoke maker, they are easy to work with, precise, generally have good customer service, and you don't need to go to NYC, London, Naples, Milan, or wait for traveling trunk shows. For the vast majority of people, and especially given the lack of experience with tailoring, the cost/benefit analysis is easy to do and the conclusions, obvious.
     


  7. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Most likely done by hand. Doing that on a machine could be a PITA, and possibly more expensive, given the amount of machining that would need to be done, and the relatively low cost of labor.
     


  8. Fuuma

    Fuuma Franchouillard Modasse

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    To be honest it was a matter of social class, some of the guys who discussed bespoke learned it from their milieu and brought this knowledge to discussions, making things about outside knowledge-power being brought in . The current echo chamber of circular information exchange isn't a natural evolution, merely the disappearance of the old bourgeois culture (it died in the 80s but the aftershock is truly felt now). In a sense there is no point in discussing bespoke in 2015.

    On the deadening of discussions as a whole I do believe you astutely pointed out that "the internet" is no longer unified as it is now understood through the taxonomy of apps. The browser/search engine is no longer a place for socialization, as it moved to specific apps like fb, instagram etc.. Forums will come back to a marginalized space they previously occupied.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2015


  9. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Senior member

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    I mean, on CM we're talking about a period of seven or eight years (meaning, what people reference as the "Golden Years" to present day). Social structures in the US haven't changed that much in the last seven to eight years.

    Again, the issue isn't discussing bespoke per se -- although I think those threads were fun for everyone on CM -- it's more about the discussions of how to dress well (in a classic sense). That seemed to be tied to the people who bought bespoke, which was helpful whether you bought bespoke or not.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2015


  10. johanm

    johanm Senior member

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    Another key thing those guys had is an interest in continuing to discuss CM theory after establishing a satisfactory office wardrobe. Also guys like Will have an interest in wearing CM in their free time, which is obviously pretty niche in this day and age, at least as something people would want to discuss online.


    +1 on this. It's not even that bespoke isn't a good idea for some categories of things, it's that waiting for months is just not fun at all, which over time causes people focus their interests to where near-term satisfaction is more likely. E.g., browsing Mr. Porter vs. fabric swatches for a suit that won't be delivered until next year.
     


  11. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    I think that I agree with your observations, but not your conclusions. The discussions now are mostly had by, to carry on in the language you used, the "new bourgeoisie", which is developing it's own tastes, conventions, etc... informed by imperfect knowledge of what came before. This is nothing new in history during non-revolutionary times.

    RE. forums, I can see them becoming niches, as they once were, but much more discoverable, because of technology, and looked upon as repositories of the knowledge passed down by the most knowledgeable. It's always been that way, with forums having a much higher barrier to entry compared to other social sites. For about a decade, forums seemed much more accessible to participation, but yes, I can definitely see them reverting to the domain of those who consider themselves "experts" in one form or another, and to those who are brave enough to throw themselves into the fray despite their lack of expertise. I've implemented bulwarks against this here (affiliate threads, for example, are low in their barriers to entry - all you need to participate is enthusiasm for the products being sold), as have other forum owners with decent heads. Head-fi has a strong review culture, for example, that has also low barriers to entry. Unfortunately, fashion does not lend itself well to reviews the way consumer tech does, but hopefully, people will start to want to post reviews of stores. However, I do see this happening on many forums.
     


  12. Fuuma

    Fuuma Franchouillard Modasse

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    Sure, the switch happened in the 80s which is why you will see less and less remnants of the old bourgeois culture until all that is left is some clowns aping frozen traditions like vinyls continually skipping while everyone else carries on listening to their music stored in the clouds (see aristocracy).

    as for bespoke and how to dress well we're in complete agreement.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2015


  13. cyc wid it

    cyc wid it Senior member

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    Enthusiast forums are stll alive and well whether gaming, tech, cars, guns, etc. For some hobbies, there are literally no other places to find the same level/amount of information.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2015


  14. Fuuma

    Fuuma Franchouillard Modasse

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    I could see forums having their own apps and being sorta like podcasts in their structure with a lot of hashtagging aka classification making them easy to search.
     


  15. msg

    msg Senior member

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    Yes, but clothing being almost entirely visual lends itself to superficial replacement by Insta/Tumblr more easily than most categories. Far more car enthusiasts care about non visual details like the engine or stats than people who care about clothes care about construction. It's that level of detail in the other categories that sustain their forums; arguably, those all are categories where the visual element is second at, or at least intrinsically supported by other aspects that aren't visual.
     


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