Random Fashion Thoughts (Part 3: Style farmer strikes back) - our general discussion thread

[dieworkwear]

I think most people know that a suit is more formal than a sport coat, even if they can't articulate the nuances regarding tailored clothing. In my office, I can get away with a sport coat even if most people are dressed more casually. I would feel wildly out of place in a "serious suit" (like a navy worsted). I would also feel wildly out of place in a casual suit, at least while at work. Would feel kind of dandy. But navy sport coat feels very natural.

Many of the older people where I work wear navy sport coats to lunch, and some of the more conservatively dressed younger people do as well (not StyleForum types, just normal, regular guys). Older meaning above 60 years old; younger meaning in their 30s and 40s.

 

[London]

Menswear in 2021 is just Pam Grier now

Foxy!

 

[mak1277]

Yeah I should clarify, while I initially responded to @gdl203 that this was just about climate, my beef with the whole "every guy needs grey flannel trousers" extends a bit further than that. They occupy this weird place in formality -- same as the navy blazer now also being discussed -- that I personally have found to not really exist. I'm not making a broad generalization and I recognize this formality level exists in other places (NYC? London?), but in my life, I tried and never really found it. In California it seems like most things either require a suit or they don't (i.e. court does; office doesn't). So someone reading the internets that's been led to believe he needs a blazer and grey wool trousers is likely to be either slightly overdressed or slightly under-dressed, and other than the 1-2 days a year when I found I could wear mine, if the grey trousers are flannel, he's also likely to be too hot (though, maybe not in SF proper? @UrbanComposition does seem to make this work).

I suppose you can make an argument either way on any of this, especially if one is inclined to use multiple paragraphs and borrowed content.

which leads me to my next paragraph...

My initial comment was really just an anecdote based on personal experience and from having spent time on fashion forums for about 15 years or so. I wasn't targeting PTO initially, and will say that when I was starting out, I didn't read it or consider it a guiding authority. I made a joke about PTO only after DWW decided to turn this into a debate about something he wrote recently, apparently, although it doesn't seem like grey flannels were a huge focus of that article either (though they are mentioned along with grey wool trousers generally). I checked out the article since it seemed like that's what this ended up being about, and will say that I don't disagree on any particular point.

Ignoring the climate issues, which can't really be fixed, what's wrong with wearing grey flannel pants like this?

I feel like you could be missing out if the only way you imagine them is worn with a navy sport coat. I wear mine with demin & chambray shirts (with and without sport coats) fairly often.

I agree with the idea that you don't "need" them, as prescribed by the articles you're referencing, but they're perfectly useful trousers.

 

[mak1277]

I think most people know that a suit is more formal than a sport coat, even if they can't articulate the nuances regarding tailored clothing. In my office, I can get away with a sport coat even if most people are dressed more casually. I would feel wildly out of place in a "serious suit" (like a navy worsted). I would also feel wildly out of place in a casual suit, at least while at work. Would feel kind of dandy. But navy sport coat feels very natural.

Many of the older people where I work wear navy sport coats to lunch, and some of the more conservatively dressed younger people do as well (not StyleForum types, just normal, regular guys). Older meaning above 60 years old; younger meaning in their 30s and 40s.

This is kind of the double edged sword of a navy sport coat though isn't it? As you said, it completely blends in to the point of being overlooked...but at the same time, everyone who has a sport coat has one, so they're kind of boring. I had a proposal meeting with a potential vendor at work yesteday and 7 out of 8 attendees had a plain navy sport coat on.

 

[Symphony]

Fast fashion is as old as Gen Z. Why do we expect teens to out-thrift retailers?

Young consumers have a complex relationship with fast fashion.

www.vox.com

oh boy...

 

[dieworkwear]

This is kind of the double edged sword of a navy sport coat though isn't it? As you said, it completely blends in to the point of being overlooked...but at the same time, everyone who has a sport coat has one, so they're kind of boring. I had a proposal meeting with a potential vendor at work yesteday and 7 out of 8 attendees had a plain navy sport coat on.

I suppose. I don't have a problem with wearing things that other people are wearing.

 

[dalevy]

This is kind of the double edged sword of a navy sport coat though isn't it? As you said, it completely blends in to the point of being overlooked...but at the same time, everyone who has a sport coat has one, so they're kind of boring. I had a proposal meeting with a potential vendor at work yesteday and 7 out of 8 attendees had a plain navy sport coat on.

But were they wearing sport coats or orphaned suit jackets?

 

[happyriverz]

I think most people know that a suit is more formal than a sport coat, even if they can't articulate the nuances regarding tailored clothing. In my office, I can get away with a sport coat even if most people are dressed more casually. I would feel wildly out of place in a "serious suit" (like a navy worsted). I would also feel wildly out of place in a casual suit, at least while at work. Would feel kind of dandy. But navy sport coat feels very natural.

Many of the older people where I work wear navy sport coats to lunch, and some of the more conservatively dressed younger people do as well (not StyleForum types, just normal, regular guys). Older meaning above 60 years old; younger meaning in their 30s and 40s.

It would be interesting if someone wrote critically about what it means to "get away" wearing something in a professional setting for men in these post-pandemic times.

My gut intuition is that, barring wearing something that is truly offensive or disrespectful, what you can "get away" with is anything you want to wear and that the boundaries are more internal than external.

 

[trafficjam]

I'm probably gonna get batted down by someone who knows a lot more, but it seems to me that what constitutes a "sport coat" these days is so broad that limiting yourself to the semi-suit-like thing that people recognize it as is almost useless. Between tech fabric travel jackets and chore coats taking over the high street stores, the broadly-defined sportcoat is something you can wear pretty much anywhere with anything. In that sense, assuming the gold-buttoned navy blazer a la caddyshack snob is probably pretty limited, but something that can be worn across the ever-expanding definition of casual is probably a good shout.

 

[UrbanComposition]

Yeah I should clarify, while I initially responded to @gdl203 that this was just about climate, my beef with the whole "every guy needs grey flannel trousers" extends a bit further than that. They occupy this weird place in formality -- same as the navy blazer now also being discussed -- that I personally have found to not really exist. I'm not making a broad generalization and I recognize this formality level exists in other places (NYC? London?), but in my life, I tried and never really found it. In California it seems like most things either require a suit or they don't (i.e. court does; office doesn't). So someone reading the internets that's been led to believe he needs a blazer and grey wool trousers is likely to be either slightly overdressed or slightly under-dressed, and other than the 1-2 days a year when I found I could wear mine, if the grey trousers are flannel, he's also likely to be too hot (though, maybe not in SF proper? @UrbanComposition does seem to make this work).

I suppose you can make an argument either way on any of this, especially if one is inclined to use multiple paragraphs and borrowed content.

which leads me to my next paragraph...

My initial comment was really just an anecdote based on personal experience and from having spent time on fashion forums for about 15 years or so. I wasn't targeting PTO initially, and will say that when I was starting out, I didn't read it or consider it a guiding authority. I made a joke about PTO only after DWW decided to turn this into a debate about something he wrote recently, apparently, although it doesn't seem like grey flannels were a huge focus of that article either (though they are mentioned along with grey wool trousers generally). I checked out the article since it seemed like that's what this ended up being about, and will say that I don't disagree on any particular point.

It’s 64F in San Francisco today, easily cool enough for flannel pents and a hopsack blazer. OCBDs and ties are a no brainer but I’ve been messing around with tees and polos recently (besides denim, chambray, and aloha shirts) and like how easily something generally viewed as formal can be dressed down.

Harder to do with worsted wool though. Best used with fabrics that already lean casual.

 

[dieworkwear]

I'm probably gonna get batted down by someone who knows a lot more, but it seems to me that what constitutes a "sport coat" these days is so broad that limiting yourself to the semi-suit-like thing that people recognize it as is almost useless. Between tech fabric travel jackets and chore coats taking over the high street stores, the broadly-defined sportcoat is something you can wear pretty much anywhere with anything. In that sense, assuming the gold-buttoned navy blazer a la caddyshack snob is probably pretty limited, but something that can be worn across the ever-expanding definition of casual is probably a good shout.

Only thing I don't like about those SWD styled "sport coats" is that they often don't have any structure inside, so they often only look good on certain body types. When you build a more traditional jacket, the padding, canvassing, haircloth, and proportions flatter the body because they speak to an idealized Western image of the male body.

I've tried those deconstructed, Barena, techy, short, EG Bedford, Drake's Games blazer, etc type jackets and they all look really bad on me. You need a certain body type to make them work, whereas, if you have a good tailor, the traditional CM stuff will work for anyone.

 

[sinnedk]

It’s 64F in San Francisco today, easily cool enough for flannel pents and a hopsack blazer. OCBDs and ties are a no brainer but I’ve been messing around with tees and polos recently (besides denim, chambray, and aloha shirts) and like how easily something generally viewed as formal can be dressed down.

Harder to do with worsted wool though. Best used with fabrics that already lean casual.

I am dying after a bike ride at my comp

 

[willy cheesesteak]

dune lovers, new trailer just dropped

 

[DoubleDouble]

I've tried those deconstructed, Barena, techy, short, EG Bedford, Drake's Games blazer, etc type jackets and they all look really bad on me. You need a certain body type to make them work, whereas, if you have a good tailor, the traditional CM stuff will work for anyone.

How would you describe the body type that works and the ones that don't?

 

[sinnedk]

dune lovers, new trailer just dropped

saw it last night, looks real cool.