Random Fashion Thoughts (Part 3: Style farmer strikes back) - our general discussion thread

[hoodog]

Whats wrong with Banana Republic clothing?

It's not very expensive and not made in Japan.

 

[DapperPhilly]

It's not very expensive and not made in Japan.

I love my Italian clothing but I also have found some excellent Banana Republic pieces. Casual only from the BR.

 

[mak1277]

Same thing. Very few people need a navy sport coat either. If you want one, be my guest, but don't let anyone tell you that you need one.

@StanleyVanBuren makes a really good point: often when people talk about 'basics' or 'essentials', there are a lot of unspoken assumptions about these things being basic or essential 'for where?', 'for who?' and 'for what?'

I think people who only own one sportcoat need a navy sport coat. I think people who own 10+ sport coats probably don't *need* one. I lost my navy sport coat about 3 years ago and I haven't felt compelled to buy a new one. @dieworkwear posted an article once where Mark Cho said something like, "life's too short to just wear navy sport coats" and I agree with that take.

 

[happyriverz]

I do think recommendations like @dieworkwear wrote for PTO are really helpful for beginners, and the framing those recommendations as "baseline items that you can start out with" rather than "must buys" or "essentials" is much more helpful and accurate to someone just starting out.

Also agree that it is much harder to write something like that in 2021 than it was in 2011 because the way people dress have changed so much. The old assumption that if you have a certain kind of occupation, then you must look or dress a certain way is no longer a safe one to make. Just taking myself as an example, if you didn't know me and you saw me on the street, you wouldn't know that I am a corporate lawyer who work on debt financing, as I haven't worn a sportcoat, let alone a suit, for work in more than 2 years, and my hair is down to my shoulders. The breakdown of that kind of assumption makes it more difficult to write recommendations for beginners, because the old dressing paradigm was all about time/place/occasion.

 

[double00]

I love my Italian clothing but I also have found some excellent Banana Republic pieces. Casual only from the BR.

the old t shirts are really excellent, a killer beefy-t type yarn and a great square cut .

and speaking of, great for a blousy tuck with a pair of shorts, pref generously cut

 

[BlakeRVA]

Whats wrong with Banana Republic clothing?

There's nothing wrong with Banana Republic. I was simply surprised it was being presented as "new information" by this influencer, as if every decent shopping mall in the USA didn't have a Banana Republic inside of it.

 

[alkydrinker]

I love my Italian clothing but I also have found some excellent Banana Republic pieces. Casual only from the BR.

The thing I think about mass brands like BR is they are constantly churning out a variety of ever-changing goods, always playing with different designs by many different designers on staff, sourcing fabric from many different places, and assembling the goods in various different factories across the world. So, there isn't necessarily a strong, common DNA running through all their items. It can be a bit of a grab bag where a lot of items suck due to cost cutting/profit maximizing as well as stylistically catering to a lowest common denominator, but sometimes the stars align where some pieces here and there are actually quite good.

 

[bry2000]

Huh, doesn't all BR stuff look pretty much the same year to year? DNA? wut?

 

[DapperPhilly]

The thing I think about mass brands like BR is they are constantly churning out a variety of ever-changing goods, always playing with different designs by many different designers on staff, sourcing fabric from many different places, and assembling the goods in various different factories across the world. So, there isn't necessarily a strong, common DNA running through all their items. It can be a bit of a grab bag where a lot of items suck due to cost cutting/profit maximizing as well as stylistically catering to a lowest common denominator, but sometimes the stars align where some pieces here and there are actually quite good.

I have found some of their linen and cotton fabrics to be very nice. Their casual tops fit me well right off the rack.
As you pointed out, you have to find their diamonds in the midst of much rough.

 

[StanleyVanBuren]

Same thing. Very few people need a navy sport coat either. If you want one, be my guest, but don't let anyone tell you that you need one.

@StanleyVanBuren makes a really good point: often when people talk about 'basics' or 'essentials', there are a lot of unspoken assumptions about these things being basic or essential 'for where?', 'for who?' and 'for what?'

Yeah I should clarify, while I initially responded to @gdl203 that this was just about climate, my beef with the whole "every guy needs grey flannel trousers" extends a bit further than that. They occupy this weird place in formality -- same as the navy blazer now also being discussed -- that I personally have found to not really exist. I'm not making a broad generalization and I recognize this formality level exists in other places (NYC? London?), but in my life, I tried and never really found it. In California it seems like most things either require a suit or they don't (i.e. court does; office doesn't). So someone reading the internets that's been led to believe he needs a blazer and grey wool trousers is likely to be either slightly overdressed or slightly under-dressed, and other than the 1-2 days a year when I found I could wear mine, if the grey trousers are flannel, he's also likely to be too hot (though, maybe not in SF proper? @UrbanComposition does seem to make this work).

I suppose you can make an argument either way on any of this, especially if one is inclined to use multiple paragraphs and borrowed content.

which leads me to my next paragraph...

My initial comment was really just an anecdote based on personal experience and from having spent time on fashion forums for about 15 years or so. I wasn't targeting PTO initially, and will say that when I was starting out, I didn't read it or consider it a guiding authority. I made a joke about PTO only after DWW decided to turn this into a debate about something he wrote recently, apparently, although it doesn't seem like grey flannels were a huge focus of that article either (though they are mentioned along with grey wool trousers generally). I checked out the article since it seemed like that's what this ended up being about, and will say that I don't disagree on any particular point.

 

[Michigan Planner]

I always, and have always, tucked in my t-shirt. Probably has something to do with being in my late sixties? Then again I may be odd. I also always wear crew length socks.
View attachment 1643033

I don't wear t-shirts often, but when I do 95% of the time I tuck them in as well.

I started doing so when I was in the Marines a long time ago and it was required when wearing civilian clothing and it's something that has just stuck with me in the decades since then.

 

[Maxwellll]

Menswear in 2021 is just Pam Grier now

 

[happyriverz]

Yeah I should clarify, while I initially responded to @gdl203 that this was just about climate, my beef with the whole "every guy needs grey flannel trousers" extends a bit further than that. They occupy this weird place in formality -- same as the navy blazer now also being discussed -- that I personally have found to not really exist. I'm not making a broad generalization and I recognize this formality level exists in other places (NYC? London?), but in my life, I tried and never really found it. In California it seems like most things either require a suit or they don't (i.e. court does; office doesn't). So someone reading the internets that's been led to believe he needs a blazer and grey wool trousers is likely to be either slightly overdressed or slightly under-dressed, and other than the 1-2 days a year when I found I could wear mine, if the grey trousers are flannel, he's also likely to be too hot (though, maybe not in SF proper? @UrbanComposition does seem to make this work).

I suppose you can make an argument either way on any of this, especially if one is inclined to use multiple paragraphs and borrowed content.

which leads me to my next paragraph...

My initial comment was really just an anecdote based on personal experience and from having spent time on fashion forums for about 15 years or so. I wasn't targeting PTO initially, and will say that when I was starting out, I didn't read it or consider it a guiding authority. I made a joke about PTO only after DWW decided to turn this into a debate about something he wrote recently, apparently, although it doesn't seem like grey flannels were a huge focus of that article either (though they are mentioned along with grey wool trousers generally). I checked out the article since it seemed like that's what this ended up being about, and will say that I don't disagree on any particular point.

I'll go a step further and just say that if you are going to wear tailored clothing, just wear a suit. The sportcoat + odd trousers combo occupies a spectrum of formality that is ever shrinking, and it is the least "legible" to people who have no prior understanding of the level of formality in tailored clothing. If you don't want to appear to be doing serious business while wearing a suit, then don't wear a conservative business dress suit -- plenty of suits out there for partying and leisure (putting patch pockets on dark suits doesn't count)

 

[thatboyo]

People who have no prior understanding of formality in tailored clothing thinks SC + trouser = suit.

 

[nahneun]

so you mean to tell me a suit isn't just a blazer with matching trousers?