Race car - where to start with prep?

[j]

I just bought a 1986 BMW 325 (pre-'e', not 'i') for really cheap to build into a race/rally car. I know we have some people on here with experience in racing so I thought I'd ask for suggestions. What class should I build it for? I'd like to do rally with it really, but road racing would be fun too. The problem I'm having is the race class rules. The car is kind of sucky in stock form in terms of performance (130 HP or something and low rev limit) but with a little engine modification can perform quite well (I've heard around 200 HP by swapping other BMW parts). Obviously though, this puts me into a much more competitive class. I really just want to have fun with it and spend as little as possible on the car.

Halp! Thanks.

 

[Tokyo Slim]

How many Cr are you willing to spend? Can't you just race Amalfi a few more times?

 

[dah328]

I never had the $$ to get into club racing (although I did track my cars a fair amount) so I'll let others weigh in on the different racing classes, but I do know something about the E30 engines. It's going to take a lot of engine work to get the 325 engine up to 200hp. A somewhat common approach is to build a stroker motor based on a 325e block with a 325i head, often with some customized pistons, crankshaft, etc. Ireland Engineering (http://www.bmw2002.com/) has some well-regarded kits for E30 motors although generally targeted toward the M20 (325i). This page has some good info on E30 stroker motors. Good luck. I sold my E30 325i last summer and I still miss how that car handled.

 

[dah328]

Korman Autoworks and Metric Mechanic are also known for some pretty high-powered E30 engines although neither are cheap.

 

[j]

Honestly, if I were going into a seriously modified class I'd probably just find a 325i motor and rebuild that with some basic performance stuff (port matching etc). I think that would be much more efficient use of time/money and they are rated at 170HP or so stock, which is nothing to sneeze at. I will look at your links though, can never have too much info.

I too had an e30 325i and it handled great. Hoping to get even better than that when this car is all prepped.

 

[Dakota rube]

Find Kai

 

[Roikins]

Not sure about the rally stuff, but if you wanted to do road racing, there's Spec e30 which is obviously pretty cheap to get into since you really keep most of the car "stock." But regardless of road or rally, the place to start is by gutting the car and finding a fabricator to put in a roll cage if you're not handy enough to build and weld one yourself. You should also get yourself a race seat since it's always easier to get that fitted and mounted when the car is gutted, pre-roll cage install.

 

[SkinnyGoomba]

J, I did a road race Porsche cage a couple years ago:

If you want to be competitive you absolutely must research the class you want to compete in and build the car specifically for that class. Roundy round racing is quite expensive, especially in a BMW. You may want to visit the track and talk to competitive racers to get an idea of whats really involved to at least qualify. I did alot in drag racing, I worked for a guy who enjoyed owning the quick ET record in the EFI classes and he easily spent $100k/car to do it, and he had 3 cars competing. For round track, find out if you need to buy a pre-made motor, or if you are allowed to build your own. If its a class that allows you to build your own motor it'll be extremely expensive to compete in.

 

[speedster.8]

I have friends that do the lemons series you have stateside , they say its a lot of fun. But you could start by joining a local track-day club. I enjoy track days a lot. and as a well known race driver once said: If you cant go fast in a slow car you wont be able to in a fast car

my2c

 

[Roikins]

Originally Posted by SkinnyGoomba

J, I did a road race Porsche cage a couple years ago:

Beautiful welds.

 

[SkinnyGoomba]

thanks!

 

[Kai]

Originally Posted by j

I just bought a 1986 BMW 325 (pre-'e', not 'i') for really cheap to build into a race/rally car. I know we have some people on here with experience in racing so I thought I'd ask for suggestions. What class should I build it for? I'd like to do rally with it really, but road racing would be fun too. The problem I'm having is the race class rules. The car is kind of sucky in stock form in terms of performance (130 HP or something and low rev limit) but with a little engine modification can perform quite well (I've heard around 200 HP by swapping other BMW parts). Obviously though, this puts me into a much more competitive class. I really just want to have fun with it and spend as little as possible on the car.

Halp! Thanks.

Is this going to be solely a race car, or does it need to be street driven as well? If it's not street legal, do you have access to a trailer?

What sanctioning body are you looking at? SCCA? NASA? Something else?

Regarding road racing, are you intent on wheel to wheel racing, or are you interested in time trials? If you're actually racing wheel to wheel, the safety requirements will be higher. Similarly, full-on rally racing (as opposed to something like Rally Cross) will require very stringent safety mods.

If you really just want to have fun and spend little money on the car, you should keep it in as (s)low of a classification as possible. Look for a "spec" class, and build your car to that spec. I don't know if there is a spec class available for that car or not.

I would suggest you start slowly. Begin with open track days (often referred to as high performance driver education or "HPDE") If you like rally, begin with rally cross. The costs and commitment are lower. (You will also build the experience necessary for getting certified for wheel to wheel or competitive rally.)

Plan on spending more than you think you will need to. Engine mods are just the beginning. Safety gear, brakes, tires and suspension will require a fair amount of $$$ too.
Racing will break stuff, especially rally racing. Plan on breaking things. It's an expensive hobby.

 

[turboman808]

Someone beat me to it. Is it going to be a race car or a street car for track days? Race car you need a truck and a trailer to get it to the track.

I did the race car thing about 10 years ago. I had a 88 Mazda 323 I raced with SCCA in regional ITB races. It wasn't that expensive. I started to build a rally car and did a few events before it was competitive or had to much money into it. That was pretty expensive. Sold both car about 6 years ago.


The motor is the last thing you should touch. You need to get the suspension and all the safety gear in place before you start tweaking the motor. I was only allowed to run a header, exhaust and intake in ITB. That was fine by me. I would blow the motor and get one from the junk yard. $300 for a good motor.


They do have spec classes for that car I think. That could be fun as well.


Gettting up early and driving to the track, unloading the car and waiting to get on the course kinda wore on me. Now I just have weekend street/track toys. I like just getting up, throwing my helmet in the car and driving like a bandit at 6am to the track and hanging out with friends. When it gets competitive then it just ruins it for me.


My weekend toy should have been finished about 2 months ago. Finally got into paint today. I may or may not have had to get a bit angry at people to get the ball rolling on this again. Should have it back in 2-3 weeks.

 

[DMcG]

In addition to what has been said (especially about a race car vs. a track day car) I wouldn't try to build a car for both competitive rallying and competitive road racing. Even if you're lucky enough that the safety requirements are the same for each the car setups are not going to be the same. Sure you could pull the skid plates and mud flaps off the car when you're done rallying and ready to go road racing but then your ride height, spring rates, and damping are probably going to be off.

With an e30 with the eta engine I'd probably focus on rallying. The torquey, low-revving engine is going to be more tolerable in the woods than on a road course. If you swap in a 325i engine or build a super-eta thats a different story. Also after this season spec e30 is just a 325i(s) class. You probably could find and SCCA or NASA road racing class the eta will fit in if you really want to.

 

[j]

Yeah, I think I am going to build the car for Rallycross because it will be really hard to fit it into any other classes (at least with any chance of competing). I'm not really focusing at all on "winning" or "competing" but more just having fun driving fast(er than normal) and precisely. I've always loved driving on snow and dirt (esp. in my 325i and Datsun 510s

) and the Rallycross type of racing seems like a good style for me. Actually if I wanted to build a road race car my remaining 510 might be a better starting point... all the parts are cheaper and the car is much lighter to begin with, so it could conceivably compete pretty well in a modified class. Only problem would be the relative unavailability of body panels and some suspension parts.