** Quintessential Crockett & Jones Thread ** (reviews, quality, etc...)

[TJS]

What about the Pembroke? Or the Trickers Bourton? Iconic British Country shoes in my opinion and casual enough alternative to boots

Very good suggestions, but for whatever reason I'm personally not a big fan of brogue shoes. Although I do have a pair of C&G Islay that I wear a lot, so again it must be the boot vs. shoe thing.

 

[Mr_Spud]

Waiting to see what the new AW collection holds is probably a good idea. Like you I'm much more of a boot guy so I understand the dilemma. It's why I've been on the lookout for a shoe that is both rugged and attractive enough to be worn with the same sort of clothes I wear with my various English 'country' boots, that look as good without appearing too dressy. Evidently it's a much more difficult balance to strike with shoes.

Very good suggestions, but for whatever reason I'm personally not a big fan of brogue shoes. Although I do have a pair of C&G Islay that I wear a lot, so again it must be the boot vs. shoe thing.

he he about the same. For me the brogue boot feels outdoorsy, but the shoes feel way too dressy. Weird.

With all that said, I think i’ll Keep an eye out for slightly chunkier suede shoes. Probably the best option for warm weather in the mid 30s even if I do still plan to wear boots in that weather too.

 

[TJS]

he he about the same. For me the brogue boot feels outdoorsy, but the shoes feel way too dressy. Weird.

Exactly how I feel about them.

Like you suede chukkas are my regular 'shoe' (I think of them as shoes in the context of lace-up boots) for two or three of the English seasons, but not great for muddy puddles and the like. Maybe a rough-out suede chukka would be a good winter alternative to full-on boots. When I was much younger, before I had the inclination and money to own so much footwear, I wore something similar pretty much year round (probably Clark's or something). I might take a fresh look at the Molton next time I'm in a C&G store.

 

[Atemporal]

Hi. After many days reading posts and learning a lot from all the knowledge shared in the forum I think I will order my first pair C&J. I have always been a black cap toe guy but I never decided to buy a Northampton's pair until I having clear which one would be the best choice for me... The first one must be special. Unfortunately, I don't live in London anymore and my country doesn't have any shop that sells them so I need to order blindly. Many times in Jermyn Street, many times in Canary Wharf and never decided to try a pair on... Always leaving it for the right moment -that never came. Regrets now.
Anyway, I took note of lots of information provided here by Cleav -fantastic articles & photos BTW, Tweedy Prof, Fred G. Unn, NewStart, MGD83 and many others. Very useful.
However, I am still stuck... I would sincerely appreciate any suggestion. This is my case study:

• I want to buy a pair of black Hallam (leather sole) My first plan was Audley, but they will be the next ones.
• My foot length is between 27cm and 27.3cm
• My foot width is between 10cm and 11cm
• I am thinking about ordering a pair but not sure if 8 UK or 7.5 UK
• I don't have issues with long shoes. I have several pairs between 30.5cm and 31.3cm heel to tip but none of them so pointy. And definitely I don't want both, a pointy & very narrow shoe... I can handle it till a certain point. 30.8cm (12 1/8) is my limit for Hallam. I wouldn't wear a longer one. On the other hand I don't like short shoes either.

So I have a few questions that may also help others:

1. Could anyone with a pair of 7.5 UK 348 last (preferably Hallam) share it's length heel to toe and width? According to Cleav, for a pair of Lowndes, they were 303mm (11.92 inches) and 107mm. I assume leather sole. Could someone say if those dimensions keep the same for Hallam or other 348 with leather sole? I wouldn't wear a shoe shorter than 303mm or 300mm.
2. I think there is consensus in 348 - 8 UK length: 12 1/8 and width: 4 1/4. Am I right?
3. I saw the C&J size guide. It says that 8.5 UK = 27 Japanese. I am assuming the Japanese system is based on cm, so if my foot is 27cm approx, I should take 8.5 UK, but I know it is a quite elongated last so I may consider something between 7.5 UK and 8.5 UK. Am I right?
4. Could anyone share how many additional mm has the rubber sole compared to the leather one? I read that maybe 50mm.

That's all. Thanks in advance for your help. This forum has been a great discovery for me.

 

[Mr_Spud]

Exactly how I feel about them.

Like you suede chukkas are my regular 'shoe' (I think of them as shoes in the context of lace-up boots) for two or three of the English seasons, but not great for muddy puddles and the like. Maybe a rough-out suede chukka would be a good winter alternative to full-on boots. When I was much younger, before I had the inclination and money to own so much footwear, I wore something similar pretty much year round (probably Clark's or something). I might take a fresh look at the Molton next time I'm in a C&G store.

Chukkas are funny, eh? One the one hand perfectly reasonable for warmer weather especially, but that short-tall shaft means that they don't close around the ankle full and so for me because I spend a lot of time outdoors on walks or playing with the kids I always end up with little debris in my shoes. Makes me wonder how on earth the damn desert boot worked for those poor blokes fighting in Africa.

 

[Braid]

Very good suggestions, but for whatever reason I'm personally not a big fan of brogue shoes. Although I do have a pair of C&G Islay that I wear a lot, so again it must be the boot vs. shoe thing.

What about plain toe derby or split toe / apron? CJ Grasmere are a nice country option, also the CJ Onslow or EG dover in country calf.

 

[TJS]

What about plain toe derby or split toe / apron? CJ Grasmere are a nice country option, also the CJ Onslow or EG dover in country calf.

Both good options, thanks. EG Dover in dark brown suede have been on my wish list for a while generally, but the country calf option is a good shout.

 

[wdrenth]

Hi. After many days reading posts and learning a lot from all the knowledge shared in the forum I think I will order my first pair C&J. I have always been a black cap toe guy but I never decided to buy a Northampton's pair until I having clear which one would be the best choice for me... The first one must be special. Unfortunately, I don't live in London anymore and my country doesn't have any shop that sells them so I need to order blindly. Many times in Jermyn Street, many times in Canary Wharf and never decided to try a pair on... Always leaving it for the right moment -that never came. Regrets now.
Anyway, I took note of lots of information provided here by Cleav -fantastic articles & photos BTW, Tweedy Prof, Fred G. Unn, NewStart, MGD83 and many others. Very useful.
However, I am still stuck... I would sincerely appreciate any suggestion. This is my case study:

• I want to buy a pair of black Hallam (leather sole) My first plan was Audley, but they will be the next ones.
• My foot length is between 27cm and 27.3cm
• My foot width is between 10cm and 11cm
• I am thinking about ordering a pair but not sure if 8 UK or 7.5 UK
• I don't have issues with long shoes. I have several pairs between 30.5cm and 31.3cm heel to tip but none of them so pointy. And definitely I don't want both, a pointy & very narrow shoe... I can handle it till a certain point. 30.8cm (12 1/8) is my limit for Hallam. I wouldn't wear a longer one. On the other hand I don't like short shoes either.

So I have a few questions that may also help others:

1. Could anyone with a pair of 7.5 UK 348 last (preferably Hallam) share it's length heel to toe and width? According to Cleav, for a pair of Lowndes, they were 303mm (11.92 inches) and 107mm. I assume leather sole. Could someone say if those dimensions keep the same for Hallam or other 348 with leather sole? I wouldn't wear a shoe shorter than 303mm or 300mm.
2. I think there is consensus in 348 - 8 UK length: 12 1/8 and width: 4 1/4. Am I right?
3. I saw the C&J size guide. It says that 8.5 UK = 27 Japanese. I am assuming the Japanese system is based on cm, so if my foot is 27cm approx, I should take 8.5 UK, but I know it is a quite elongated last so I may consider something between 7.5 UK and 8.5 UK. Am I right?
4. Could anyone share how many additional mm has the rubber sole compared to the leather one? I read that maybe 50mm.

That's all. Thanks in advance for your help. This forum has been a great discovery for me.

I suppose one of the important criteria is that a shoe (in particular the last the shoe is made on) should fit your feet (no heel slippage, good fitting around your instep, under the ball of your feet etc). An elongated shape, as with last 348, is then part of the model, and you either like it or not I guess. Going down in size just to get a shorter shoe will probably result in a shoe that is too narrow for your feet and toes (with all consequences), and another, shorter, last and model would probably be recommended.

The 348 in size UK8 is about 31cm long, measured on the outer sole. Yes, that is long, and also C&J on their last info page indicates: "The wearer may have at least an inch of space at the front of the toe box, which will not affect the heel to ball fitting as it is more for aesthetics."
50mm difference between leather and rubber seems a typo to me? Certain sole types that come with 360 degree storm welt etc, will be longer yes.

For reference, my feet are ~27cm long and ~10cm wide with slightly narrow heel and little meat on the bones. Size UK8 fits me perfectly (UK8.5 was too large, and I shouldn't size down), a little snug as I like it, but nothing that cuts the blood supply to my feet and leaving a modest 'V' when laced. Though the 348 last is indeed long, and does not suit all outfits, I am pleased each time by the good fitting properties and how well this last is proportioned (it is long, but it doesn't look silly).

Hope this help you on your quest for the perfect shoe!

 

[Atemporal]

I suppose one of the important criteria is that a shoe (in particular the last the shoe is made on) should fit your feet (no heel slippage, good fitting around your instep, under the ball of your feet etc). An elongated shape, as with last 348, is then part of the model, and you either like it or not I guess. Going down in size just to get a shorter shoe will probably result in a shoe that is too narrow for your feet and toes (with all consequences), and another, shorter, last and model would probably be recommended.

The 348 in size UK8 is about 31cm long, measured on the outer sole. Yes, that is long, and also C&J on their last info page indicates: "The wearer may have at least an inch of space at the front of the toe box, which will not affect the heel to ball fitting as it is more for aesthetics."
50mm difference between leather and rubber seems a typo to me? Certain sole types that come with 360 degree storm welt etc, will be longer yes.

For reference, my feet are ~27cm long and ~10cm wide with slightly narrow heel and little meat on the bones. Size UK8 fits me perfectly (UK8.5 was too large, and I shouldn't size down), a little snug as I like it, but nothing that cuts the blood supply to my feet and leaving a modest 'V' when laced. Though the 348 last is indeed long, and does not suit all outfits, I am pleased each time by the good fitting properties and how well this last is proportioned (it is long, but it doesn't look silly).

Hope this help you on your quest for the perfect shoe!

Thank you very much @wdrenth
Your reply has been truly helpful!
I know "my limits" in terms of what I would wear to keep a whole proportionated look but I totally agree with you about that the fit is the key factor. My problem is the lack of references. However things are clearer now. So thanks again wdrenth.
I think I will make a table with all the information -and sources- collected in this forum. That may be helpful for others.

I have created this table (initial version) with the fabulous information collected by @TweedyProf. That was extremely useful. I added a few more entries.
https://www.styleforum.net/threads/...es-thread-reviews-quality-etc.227575/page-648

Please, feel free to ping me to add more or correct any detail.

BTW, I was thinking that maybe, at least in the 348 last, each half size increases 1/8 its length.
...
7.5 UK --- 12 inches
8 UK --- 12 1/8 inches
8.5 UK --- 12 2/8 inches
9 UK --- 12 3/8 inches
...
Maybe the progression doesn't keep that strict rule/proportion and it's adapted based on statistics.
I would like to know what do people think/know about it.

 

[Atemporal]

Crockett & Jones Hallam - Black View attachment 1436512 View attachment 1436513

Superb.
I had some doubt about how they would look with some casual clothes... They look fantastic with slim jeans.
@dr1248 Would you mind sharing your size and feet dimensions?

 

[H. E. Pennypacker]

Does anyone own the Islay, Lindrick, and Pembroke and find them to be redundant?

I feel compelled to own all 3, but I wonder if it's necessary–relative to a shoe aficionado/hobbyist or however one likes to dress it. They're all wingtips for starters, but each boot and the Pembroke have their individual characteristics. I'd like to hear the thoughts of others, and I'm sure there are a few members here that might actually own all the aforementioned.

I'm aware the Lindrick is out of production, but I often have seen the Lindrick available in my size in the second-hand market.

 

[wklq76a]

Does anyone own the Islay, Lindrick, and Pembroke and find them to be redundant?

I feel compelled to own all 3, but I wonder if it's necessary–relative to a shoe aficionado/hobbyist or however one likes to dress it. They're all wingtips for starters, but each boot and the Pembroke have their individual characteristics. I'd like to hear the thoughts of others, and I'm sure there are a few members here that might actually own all the aforementioned.

I'm aware the Lindrick is out of production, but I often have seen the Lindrick available in my size in the second-hand market.

I own pembroke in whisky and skye iii in dark brown cordovan. If the opportunity to pick up a pair of islays or lindricks in burgundy came up I’d probably jump at the chance, but not in either of the colors I already have. to be fair, I probably don’t “need” it since I’ve got Alden ravello wingtip boots...but whaddyagonnado

 

[H. E. Pennypacker]

I own pembroke in whisky and skye iii in dark brown cordovan. If the opportunity to pick up a pair of islays or lindricks in burgundy came up I’d probably jump at the chance, but not in either of the colors I already have. to be fair, I probably don’t “need” it since I’ve got Alden ravello wingtip boots...but whaddyagonnado

Are they both on the same last?

not a fan of C&J scotch? That’s another thing, C&J has a small range of leathers, thus the ‘well, I don’t have this leather/shade yet’ justification is invalid hahahaha

 

[dr1248]

Superb.
I had some doubt about how they would look with some casual clothes... They look fantastic with slim jeans.
@dr1248 Would you mind sharing your size and feet dimensions?

They fit true to size. I am a size 8 UK in CJ and EG.

 

[Mr_Spud]

Does anyone own the Islay, Lindrick, and Pembroke and find them to be redundant?

I feel compelled to own all 3, but I wonder if it's necessary–relative to a shoe aficionado/hobbyist or however one likes to dress it. They're all wingtips for starters, but each boot and the Pembroke have their individual characteristics. I'd like to hear the thoughts of others, and I'm sure there are a few members here that might actually own all the aforementioned.

I'm aware the Lindrick is out of production, but I often have seen the Lindrick available in my size in the second-hand market.

God, that is like a real existential question right there. Here I’m sitting, wondering whether I should get the dark brown Coni now that I own the tan and brown RO but also whether that is too much considering I have C&J Chelsea’s and the Galway on dark brown grain already. Yeesh. I’ve decided to wait a bit to see what’s new on their upcoming releases. Perhaps a cap toe on cleated soles in that chocolate hurricane leather? Supposed to be quite a nice hide.