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** Quintessential Crockett & Jones Thread ** (reviews, quality, etc...)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by david3558, Feb 24, 2011.

  1. kwhunter

    kwhunter Senior member

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    No, this is the 3rd hand grade in my current collection.
    I don't think a MTM shoe will give you a better fit than a RTW; the reason is that MTM use the same standard lasts as RTW; you might have thought of bespoke?
    I think C&J offer some sort of customization, but I'm not sure. However, since I live in a country with no direct C&J retail I probably can hardly benefit from that program.
     
  2. kwhunter

    kwhunter Senior member

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  3. kwhunter

    kwhunter Senior member

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    Thank you!
     
  4. BeSpiffington

    BeSpiffington Senior member

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    If they are your third pair of C&J handgrades you must really like them. Are they all on the same last? Thanks for the comparative info about C&J RTW vs. MTM. I wouldn't consider getting a bespoke Goodyear welted shoe. I'm saving that opportunity, by which I mean saving money, for a pair of handmade shoes. Three pairs is a solid recommendation, maybe I'll take a look at the handgrade line.
     
  5. kwhunter

    kwhunter Senior member

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    The 1st is on the 358 last, the 2nd and 3rd are on the 363. #4 will be on 369 [​IMG]

    PS I'm wearing C&J for the last 15 years.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2013
  6. riesenschnauser

    riesenschnauser Member

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    To the best of my knowledge, yes. C&J have claimed that the use of plastic in toes and heels is due to the increased durability, particularly better resilience towards caved-in toe caps (this may happen after someone steps on you); however, I believe it is a less labor demanding (and more cost efficient) way of making shoes. The obvious downside with plastic counters is that they are also resilient to the shape of your foot...
     
  7. chipshot

    chipshot Senior member

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    I wonder what other companies like Alden and Carmina use instead of plastic.
     
  8. JubeiSpiegel

    JubeiSpiegel Senior member

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    Some don't use heel counters or toe stiffeners at all :)
     
  9. toblov

    toblov Well-Known Member

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    dont know how to delete this post..
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2013
  10. toblov

    toblov Well-Known Member

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    Which shoe cream/polish did you use?
     
  11. kwhunter

    kwhunter Senior member

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    Saphir Medaille D'Or, burgundy.
     
  12. joiji

    joiji Senior member

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    Alden use plastic too, I believe, unsure about Carmina, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was plastic too.
     
  13. Quantimil

    Quantimil Well-Known Member

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    Even JL Paris uses plastic.
     
  14. Tuur

    Tuur Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, interesting. I can imagine that plastic is not very elastic and is thus much harder too shape than other materials. I can also imagine that due to the use of a plastic heel counter the leather at the heel stays very stiff for a longer time than on other places of the shoe.

    I have the impression that every time I wear my Edgware's (I wear them today as well) the heel slippage is a tiny bit less. However, it's hard to tell if this is really the case or if it's just a psychological thing. But like I've said, I'll give it another month and see from there. This is my first Goodyear welted shoe so I don't have a real reference point on how they should break in. Like I've said before, the shoes aren't uncomfortable at all and even on the heels they don't give me real blisters (just two reddisch spots in the evening), it's just that the heel slippage is a bit annoying, as is the feeling that my feet is not 100% secure in the shoe.

    But after my conversation with the C&J store manager I'm confident that the heel slippage will improve over time.

    I apologies for my english, I hope everybody can understand it ;-)
     
  15. joiji

    joiji Senior member

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    The plastic used would be a heat formed plastic, which is 'set' into place on the last, so the toe and heel shapes remain how they were from the factory.

    I imagine you're experience with the shoe becoming more comfortable as you wear it more, and specifically less heel slip, is that the leather is becoming easier to bend as time passes. Something which is easier to bend would need less force to bend, so your heel doesn't need to create as much friction to stay in place as it once did.
     
  16. SuitedDx

    SuitedDx Senior member

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    Just jumping in this heel slip conversation and I am not a cobbler, maker, or any pro in shoe making, but I think the counter (leather or plastic) will provide a shape but I hypothesize that it has minimal influence (not saying it has none) about changes in heel slippage through time. I think the counter is a big factor in the proper fit and shape that will always influence heel slippage. My expeirence has been the 337 has a wider/rounder opening around the Achilles compared to my better (heel) fitting shoes such as EG's 82/888. The latter has a narrower curve (closer to a "V" than "U") and the heelis taller compared to the former. To me, the shape of the heel, hence the last (again, it seems to come down to this), will greatly influence fit, especially the heels, which gets less attention compared to the other end of the last.

    I think less heel slip after prolonged wear has more to do with the flex of the outsole, primarily around the ball area. Once the leather softens, then the heel bends more easily, and thus less heel slip. This is my guess why double leather soles may create more heel slippage than single leather.

    Just my thoughts this early morning.
     
  17. Quantimil

    Quantimil Well-Known Member

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    I have a bit of problem shape in my heels (narrow and angular) and shoes where the heel counter doesn't adjust at all get painful with a lot of wear in a single day. Edward Green uses leather heel stiffeners, (plastic in the toe anyway) and my Dovers are the most comfortable shoes I have at the moment because I broke them in to the shape of my feet.

    The stiffness of the sole contributes to slipping a lot. When it softens up with wear, there should be no slippage left. Oak bark soles, as in the Handgrades, tend to take a lot more wear for them to soften up, but they also last a lot longer.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2013
  18. riesenschnauser

    riesenschnauser Member

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    I have the exact same experience. Of the C&J shoes I have owned or tried on, most all of them suffer from a low and wide heel area which increases heel slippage. My best-fitting C&J are my Connaughts (236 last), but after 3 years of hard wear they still have som heel slippage in them, countered only by the supreme fit over the forefoot. Carmina Simpson has the same issue. Heel-fit-wise, my Loake Aldwychs are much better by comparison, comparable to my EG Dovers.
     
  19. soender

    soender Well-Known Member

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    Have the same problems with heel slippage.
    I found, in a recent visit to C&J Jermyn Street, that the Connought's fit with a thin inlay (I bought them), 325 fit okay with no inlay, and the 341 fit perfect ootb without the heel movement when walking.

    How those last's translate into boot lasts I don't know. Perhaps someone can step in? Cus' you know.. winter is coming.
     
  20. Tuur

    Tuur Well-Known Member

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    I've been reading a lot of older post and topics the last few days and I'm surprised to read how many people are not really comfortable in their (in most cases) (very) expensive shoes. I even read a blogpost of the shoe snob in which he says that most of his shoes are not really comfortable all day (the reason for this are his weird shaped feet, he says) . And he is an expert in fit (i presume).

    Maybe I have to praise myself lucky that my Edgware's are relatively comfortable all things considered, apart from the heel slippage.

    @ Quantimil: maybe I should try Edward Green. But they are so damn expensive.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2013

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