Questions on Marriage (for lawyerdad)

[visionology]

Originally Posted by vanity

I know it's probably not true all across the board, but I have some questions about marriage that people always joke about and I dunno if it's true or not.

Do women really stop giving oral sex after marriage?

Does their sex drive plummet like everyone says?

After she has a baby, will she ignore you?

Will her debt become my debt?

Take this for what you want as I am not married but have plenty of friends, coworkers, etc and you know how guys are. We talk about the nitty gritty and we keep it candid. Most I know are semi happy after marriage but agree that life before marriage was better and they miss the freedom they once had, the fun, and the friends that seem to disappear once married. Enjoy life while you can.

a) women still give some oral sex after marriage on average but it decreases over time as does the frequency of intercourse. Sex generally becomes more mundane as well, resulting in less experimentation and more missionary positions. Of course there are exceptions but this is the majority. Often the acts decrease with children as there is less time for one to one passion.

b) I think the sex drive can plummet for both and the sex drive can also plummet just due to being around each other for so long. I think so many people cheat because they crave the freshness of an encounter and long for the feelings when the relationship was new.

c) babies will decrease the time for the couple. They need constant care, wake up at crazy times, and as they get older everything is done with the child with very infrequent trips with just the couple. It becomes a family event. Also the monetary problems resulting from afford the child can decrease sex as the arguments increase and tempers flare. I wouldn't call it ignoring, I would call it spreading the time more thin as there are more people to give love to. Just imagine spreading the love over 7 kids...

d) her debt will become your debt only if you let it. You are married but are still two people with two social security numbers. The smart thing in my opinion to do is to keep separate accounts with your own debt/money and then have a joint account where you can pay for things you both can use such as groceries, bills, etc. Too many problems arise in a relationship from money. There is no problem helping your significant other with their debt but I wouldn't take it on as your own and personally I would only help my significant other with their debt if it was good debt (like student loans) not some rediculous shopping spree.

 

[Dragon]

The frequency of oral slightly decreases, but the quality increases significantly over time.

That`s the most important part of your question, right?

 

[GQgeek]

I'm the least qualified to be talking about this stuff,but I think kids run a lot of interference on previously good sexual relationships. I think you can maintain a good sexual relationship even if you're married, but not if you have kids. The logistics just don't work. A lot of people are fine with this, but I don't think I am.

Personally, I will be very happy to find a partner that has no desire for them. Call me selfish, but I'd rather satisfy my own needs and desires, take frequent vacations, and avoid having my schedule dictated by soccer schedules and car pools.

Besides, most mothers completely turn me off. It reminds me of the original Alfie... They become too "mumsy." I don't know how else to explain it, but when i see mothers screaming at or otherwise disciplining their children, or even just trying to get them to listen, I don't really see them as women anymore and they lose their sweetness. I think that's why so many men cheat. Their wives just lose all sex-appeal after they have kids, especially if they put on weight and don't lose it again.

 

[vanity]

Originally Posted by GQgeek

I'm the least qualified to be talking about this stuff,but I think kids run a lot of interference on previously good sexual relationships. I think you can maintain a good sexual relationship even if you're married, but not if you have kids. The logistics just don't work. A lot of people are fine with this, but I don't think I am.

Personally, I will be very happy to find a partner that has no desire for them. Call me selfish, but I'd rather satisfy my own needs and desires, take frequent vacations, and avoid having my schedule dictated by soccer schedules and car pools.

Besides, most mothers completely turn me off. It reminds me of the original Alfie... They become too "mumsy." I don't know how else to explain it, but when i see mothers screaming at or otherwise disciplining their children, or even just trying to get them to listen, I don't really see them as women anymore and they lose their sweetness. I think that's why so many men cheat. Their wives just lose all sex-appeal after they have kids, especially if they put on weight and don't lose it again.

Again, I agree with you completely. We're like brain-twins.

 

[Rome]

The legal questions have a more clear answer according to how good your lawyer is. The relationship stuff depends more on compatibility and knowing the person you plan to marry. I highly recommend living together before getting married if you already don't. Other than that fwiw if she thinks marriage is the end all be all and that any relationship that doesnt end in marriage is a waste of time or a failure, or if she drastically pushes marriage because its what your supposed to do after a certain age, then chances are there's going to be a drastic change in her once you put that ring on her finger.

 

[acidboy]

So what made you want to marry her in the 1st place, if the questions are pertaining to that, Vanity?

 

[vanity]

She's a pretty badass chick and I can't find myself ever finding one cooler than her.

 

[whomewhat]

I am not sure of what to think about this topic, as presented, or some of the answers that have been given. As I prepare to celebrate my 25th wedding anniversary this year, as I consider our beautiful 5 children together, I cannot imagine my life having taken any other course. I also cannot imagine concerning myself with some of these things that have been raised and simulataneously stating that I love my wife.

I have four older brothers, all of whom have been divorced, a few of them multiple times. Our grandmother left us all an inheritance that we could not collect until our 30th birthday, not a fortune mind you, but a nice some of money. My brothers all maintained the money as separate property, which is permissable for an inheritance, and used it on themselves. I comingled my inheritance and long ago forgot where our family spent the money and on what we used it for(it may have helped us purchase our second home?). There is no "my stuff" and "her stuff."

I guess I am just old fashioned in that I believe, literally, that when you get married you cease to be two people and become one united person. When children are born, they become a part of the whole, the family. Everything I have is my wife's, my children's, our families, and if it were not so then we would not be a family.

I have a list of "12 questions to ask if thinking about getting engaged." Funny thing is, none of what has been discussed is amongst the criteria.

1. Are you better people when you are with each other? Does each of you inspire the other to do his best in studies, jobs, and other significant responsibilities? Or do you both live below your standards and ideals when you are together?

2. Does either of you want to date anyone else? If so, you are not yet prepared to give yourself fully to the other. The total commitment necessary in marriage is not possible as long as you are interested in dating someone else. This does not mean that you may not admire persons of the opposite sex or be impressed by them. But it does mean that you will not have a romantic interest in them.

3. Do you truly enjoy each other’s company? Or do you just enjoy each other when you are doing things you like to do? A hallmark of true love is enjoying the companionship of the other person regardless of the particular activity of the moment. The joy need not come from the activity but just from being together and sharing with each other. The companionship of each other is the primary source of satisfaction, not the activity.

4. Do you feel better about yourself when you are with him or her? Do you feel like a person of true worth? Few things in life have more impact on what we become than what we think of ourselves. Our concept of ourselves as persons of true worth are critical. Do you help one another to have more self-esteem, or do you tend to find fault with each other? It is certainly appropriate to encourage each other to improve, but this should be done in a spirit of love. If either of you tends to focus on the other’s failings, your love for each other is in question. True love is actively creative—it leads to the discovery of successful methods of improving or contributing to the life of another.

5. Are his or her needs as important to you as your own? Do you each find yourself continually looking for appropriate ways to make the other happy? Or are you each seeking your own happiness and interests without first considering those of the other?

6. Are you each free to be yourself when you are together or must you always be on guard? Do you need to hide what you really are? Or are you confident that you are fully accepted and loved? Unfortunately, our society sometimes encourages coyness, playing it cool, hiding part of ourselves from others—especially in a dating relationship. In a marriage relationship, however, each partner must be free to be himself. This does not mean that you must share everything; it means that you are free to share when the need arises. This freedom also means that each conscience is clear. You cannot truly accept another without fully accepting yourself. Nor can you fully give of yourself when the barrier of guilt exists.

7. Are you prepared to marry the family of your prospective mate? While you may think that you only marry one person, in a real sense, you marry into a whole family. The parents of your mate become the grandparents of your children. Do you each feel good about that—and the influence they will have on your children? Even when separated by wide distances, there is still significant involvement with each other’s families. Do both of your families support you in your decision to get married and will they support you in future decisions? Unresolved conflicts with one or both sets of parents will place added strains on your relationship.

8. How do you each treat your own parents? Do you respect them as individuals and respect their position and authority? It is likely that you will treat each other the same way you each treat own family.

9. How does each of you feel about the other being a parent of your children? Will she be the type of mother that you really wish for your children? And will you want your children to be like her—because they probably will be. Of course, she will need to ask the same question about you as the father of your children. Are you each now, or are you becoming, the type of individuals that you would be happy to have your children become? Have you discussed your goals for parenthood?

10. Are you willing to counsel together in love? Do you seek each others opinion on issues involving both of you?

11. What will your destiny together be? If each of you continues to progress as you are now, where will you end up? Will your prospective mate help you to achieve your destiny?

At this point you may be wondering if all of these criteria carry equal weight. Must all of them be answered in the affirmative for you to feel confident in your decision? My experiences with many couples suggest that they are all important. Most of them are more than important; they are critical. However, this does not mean that they are all equally important, and perhaps if one or two of them are not fully met, the deficit is not insurmountable. You will need to consider the risk and decide.

The final guideline, number twelve, is all-important: after carefully considering the foregoing questions and then reaching a decision have you had your decision confirmed by God, if you believe in such?



A pair of human skeletons lie in an eternal embrace at an Neolithic archaeological dig site near Mantova, Italy. Archaeologists in northern Italy believe the couple was buried 5,000-6,000 years ago, their arms still wrapped around each other in an eternal embrace.

 

[No Shoes]

While never having been married, I can only provide second-hand insight regarding marriage and, being in my early 40's, know a little bit about it. Numerous friends have "fallen off the face of the earth" due to marriage and my married friends all pretty much seem to be "ruined men, beaten down into submission, and have resigned themselves to some monotonous kind of (usually alcohol or drug-induced) existence.

On the other hand, the happiest men I know are married to women whom they respect and are above all "their best friends". I believe a lot of it has to do with age. In Chicago anyways, it seems that guys just aren't ready for that level of commitment until they are well into their 30's and that any women under 27 or 28 is just too young. Granted I am painting with very broad strokes here and there are sure to be exceptions.

Finally, as far as financials and asset division, etc., Illinois is probably the worst state to get married. Prenups carry very little weight here and what's yours will be hers unless you devise separate legal strategies like putting your assets into a trust or better yet, get married in Vegas.

Either way, I think you are doing the right thing by asking these questions now (let's be realistic...there's a lot of f'ed up girls out there), but from the way it sounds you have found one of the rare "good ones".

Go '07 Bears!!!

 

[Mr. Checks]

Originally Posted by whomewhat

I am not sure of what to think about this topic, as presented, or some of the answers that have been given. As I prepare to celebrate my 25th wedding anniversary this year, as I consider our beautiful 5 children together, I cannot imagine my life having taken any other course. I also cannot imagine concerning myself with some of these things that have been raised and simulataneously stating that I love my wife.

I have four older brothers, all of whom have been divorced, a few of them multiple times. Our grandmother left us all an inheritance that we could not collect until our 30th birthday, not a fortune mind you, but a nice some of money. My brothers all maintained the money as separate property, which is permissable for an inheritance, and used it on themselves. I comingled my inheritance and long ago forgot where our family spent the money and on what we used it for(it may have helped us purchase our second home?). There is no "my stuff" and "her stuff."

I guess I am just old fashioned in that I believe, literally, that when you get married you cease to be two people and become one united person. When children are born, they become a part of the whole, the family. Everything I have is my wife's, my children's, our families, and if it were not so then we would not be a family.

I have a list of "12 questions to ask if thinking about getting engaged." Funny thing is, none of what has been discussed is amongst the criteria.

1. Are you better people when you are with each other? Does each of you inspire the other to do his best in studies, jobs, and other significant responsibilities? Or do you both live below your standards and ideals when you are together?

2. Does either of you want to date anyone else? If so, you are not yet prepared to give yourself fully to the other. The total commitment necessary in marriage is not possible as long as you are interested in dating someone else. This does not mean that you may not admire persons of the opposite sex or be impressed by them. But it does mean that you will not have a romantic interest in them.

3. Do you truly enjoy each other’s company? Or do you just enjoy each other when you are doing things you like to do? A hallmark of true love is enjoying the companionship of the other person regardless of the particular activity of the moment. The joy need not come from the activity but just from being together and sharing with each other. The companionship of each other is the primary source of satisfaction, not the activity.

4. Do you feel better about yourself when you are with him or her? Do you feel like a person of true worth? Few things in life have more impact on what we become than what we think of ourselves. Our concept of ourselves as persons of true worth are critical. Do you help one another to have more self-esteem, or do you tend to find fault with each other? It is certainly appropriate to encourage each other to improve, but this should be done in a spirit of love. If either of you tends to focus on the other’s failings, your love for each other is in question. True love is actively creative—it leads to the discovery of successful methods of improving or contributing to the life of another.

5. Are his or her needs as important to you as your own? Do you each find yourself continually looking for appropriate ways to make the other happy? Or are you each seeking your own happiness and interests without first considering those of the other?

6. Are you each free to be yourself when you are together or must you always be on guard? Do you need to hide what you really are? Or are you confident that you are fully accepted and loved? Unfortunately, our society sometimes encourages coyness, playing it cool, hiding part of ourselves from others—especially in a dating relationship. In a marriage relationship, however, each partner must be free to be himself. This does not mean that you must share everything; it means that you are free to share when the need arises. This freedom also means that each conscience is clear. You cannot truly accept another without fully accepting yourself. Nor can you fully give of yourself when the barrier of guilt exists.

7. Are you prepared to marry the family of your prospective mate? While you may think that you only marry one person, in a real sense, you marry into a whole family. The parents of your mate become the grandparents of your children. Do you each feel good about that—and the influence they will have on your children? Even when separated by wide distances, there is still significant involvement with each other’s families. Do both of your families support you in your decision to get married and will they support you in future decisions? Unresolved conflicts with one or both sets of parents will place added strains on your relationship.

8. How do you each treat your own parents? Do you respect them as individuals and respect their position and authority? It is likely that you will treat each other the same way you each treat own family.

9. How does each of you feel about the other being a parent of your children? Will she be the type of mother that you really wish for your children? And will you want your children to be like her—because they probably will be. Of course, she will need to ask the same question about you as the father of your children. Are you each now, or are you becoming, the type of individuals that you would be happy to have your children become? Have you discussed your goals for parenthood?

10. Are you willing to counsel together in love? Do you seek each others opinion on issues involving both of you?

11. What will your destiny together be? If each of you continues to progress as you are now, where will you end up? Will your prospective mate help you to achieve your destiny?

At this point you may be wondering if all of these criteria carry equal weight. Must all of them be answered in the affirmative for you to feel confident in your decision? My experiences with many couples suggest that they are all important. Most of them are more than important; they are critical. However, this does not mean that they are all equally important, and perhaps if one or two of them are not fully met, the deficit is not insurmountable. You will need to consider the risk and decide.

The final guideline, number twelve, is all-important: after carefully considering the foregoing questions and then reaching a decision have you had your decision confirmed by God, if you believe in such?



A pair of human skeletons lie in an eternal embrace at an Neolithic archaeological dig site near Mantova, Italy. Archaeologists in northern Italy believe the couple was buried 5,000-6,000 years ago, their arms still wrapped around each other in an eternal embrace.


I must be honest: I have never read a post this long in my life.

I sometimes fake like I have.

And you?

 

[Dakota rube]

In spite of the impending dissolution of my long-term (28+ years) marriage, I continue to believe in the institution. If I may offer just one bit of advice to vanity (and to all who contemplate taking the plunge), please make sure you truly know your betrothed. Learn as much as you can about her, about her family and friends, her habits, tastes and desires. And then truthfully ask yourself if this is the person with whom you want to spend the rest of your life. This is no guarantee of success, as people change; my wife seems to have completely morphed during the last ten years. But do your due dilligence.

 

[lawyerdad]

Originally Posted by whomewhat

A pair of human skeletons lie in an eternal embrace at an Neolithic archaeological dig site near Mantova, Italy. Archaeologists in northern Italy believe the couple was buried 5,000-6,000 years ago, their arms still wrapped around each other in an eternal embrace.
An alternative explanation is that they strangled each other in a fight about his habit of leaving the toilet seat up and her inability to remember to put the cap back on the toothpaste.

 

[whomewhat]

Originally Posted by Mr. Checks

I must be honest: I have never read a post this long in my life.

Given that marriage is supposed to last a lifetime, or eternity, depending on your point of view, and given all of the issues raised here, it would seem to me that if one was serious about taking such an important, life-altering step that they might invest in a little bit of time making sure their decision is correct, whether it is by reading or other means.

 

[sho'nuff]

nice post above whomewhat. i love you for it!


please see my pm

 

[thinman]

Originally Posted by whomewhat

I have a list of "12 questions to ask if thinking about getting engaged." Funny thing is, none of what has been discussed is amongst the criteria. 1. Are you better people when you are with each other? Does each of you inspire the other to do his best in studies, jobs, and other significant responsibilities? Or do you both live below your standards and ideals when you are together? 2. Does either of you want to date anyone else? If so, you are not yet prepared to give yourself fully to the other. The total commitment necessary in marriage is not possible as long as you are interested in dating someone else. This does not mean that you may not admire persons of the opposite sex or be impressed by them. But it does mean that you will not have a romantic interest in them. 3. Do you truly enjoy each other’s company? Or do you just enjoy each other when you are doing things you like to do? A hallmark of true love is enjoying the companionship of the other person regardless of the particular activity of the moment. The joy need not come from the activity but just from being together and sharing with each other. The companionship of each other is the primary source of satisfaction, not the activity. 4. Do you feel better about yourself when you are with him or her? Do you feel like a person of true worth? Few things in life have more impact on what we become than what we think of ourselves. Our concept of ourselves as persons of true worth are critical. Do you help one another to have more self-esteem, or do you tend to find fault with each other? It is certainly appropriate to encourage each other to improve, but this should be done in a spirit of love. If either of you tends to focus on the other’s failings, your love for each other is in question. True love is actively creative—it leads to the discovery of successful methods of improving or contributing to the life of another. 5. Are his or her needs as important to you as your own? Do you each find yourself continually looking for appropriate ways to make the other happy? Or are you each seeking your own happiness and interests without first considering those of the other? 6. Are you each free to be yourself when you are together or must you always be on guard? Do you need to hide what you really are? Or are you confident that you are fully accepted and loved? Unfortunately, our society sometimes encourages coyness, playing it cool, hiding part of ourselves from others—especially in a dating relationship. In a marriage relationship, however, each partner must be free to be himself. This does not mean that you must share everything; it means that you are free to share when the need arises. This freedom also means that each conscience is clear. You cannot truly accept another without fully accepting yourself. Nor can you fully give of yourself when the barrier of guilt exists. 7. Are you prepared to marry the family of your prospective mate? While you may think that you only marry one person, in a real sense, you marry into a whole family. The parents of your mate become the grandparents of your children. Do you each feel good about that—and the influence they will have on your children? Even when separated by wide distances, there is still significant involvement with each other’s families. Do both of your families support you in your decision to get married and will they support you in future decisions? Unresolved conflicts with one or both sets of parents will place added strains on your relationship. 8. How do you each treat your own parents? Do you respect them as individuals and respect their position and authority? It is likely that you will treat each other the same way you each treat own family. 9. How does each of you feel about the other being a parent of your children? Will she be the type of mother that you really wish for your children? And will you want your children to be like her—because they probably will be. Of course, she will need to ask the same question about you as the father of your children. Are you each now, or are you becoming, the type of individuals that you would be happy to have your children become? Have you discussed your goals for parenthood? 10. Are you willing to counsel together in love? Do you seek each others opinion on issues involving both of you? 11. What will your destiny together be? If each of you continues to progress as you are now, where will you end up? Will your prospective mate help you to achieve your destiny? At this point you may be wondering if all of these criteria carry equal weight. Must all of them be answered in the affirmative for you to feel confident in your decision? My experiences with many couples suggest that they are all important. Most of them are more than important; they are critical. However, this does not mean that they are all equally important, and perhaps if one or two of them are not fully met, the deficit is not insurmountable. You will need to consider the risk and decide. The final guideline, number twelve, is all-important: after carefully considering the foregoing questions and then reaching a decision have you had your decision confirmed by God, if you believe in such?
This is an outstanding post, perhaps the best I've read on this forum, and I applaud you for having thought about these issues so deeply. I expect you and your wife have a strong marriage and are blessed to have each other. As a recently divorced man, I have put a lot of thought into why my marriage failed and what I would want in an ideal partner. My considerations are a lot more practical and mundane than the questions above and they focus on my partner, rather than on me or on the relationship (I'm working on a similar list of my qualities and what I want to improve. The post quoted above gives me new food for thought about _the relationship_). My list of ten requirements includes some items I would never have considered, and didn't consider, before getting married for the first time. I took some of these items for granted until their absence became painfully obvious. Everyone's list will be different, but FWIW, here are my "top ten" requirements in a partner (aka what makes a woman "a badass chick"): 1.\tChemistry between us, emotional as well as physical (Do we light each other's fires/can we have fun together?) 2.\tEmotionally healthy and addiction-free, including appropriate self-esteem 3.\tHonest and open (Are we best friends?) 4.\tCares about and maintains physical health, appearance, and hygiene (Is she hot?) 5.\tPassionate about *something* and has goals in life (Does she see herself as having a "destiny" and can she respect mine?) 6.\tLoves, respects, and is committed to family. Loves children (Would she be able to show these qualities toward me and my family?) 7.\tIntelligent and curious about the world (Does she have some depth?) 8.\tCapable of and enjoys emotional and physical intimacy (Can she express her hotness?) 9.\tFinancially responsible, but not overly concerned with money (Misers and spendthrifts need not apply) 10.\tStill under consideration

I find that a relationship with a woman who fits all or most of my criteria gives me the emotional reactions described by whomewhat. I especially value women who inspire me to become a better person (this has been under serious consideration for the tenth spot on my list), but I find them exceedingly rare. I recently came to know one, who also fit most of my "top ten", but alas she has a serious boyfriend and is off limits.

Bottom line: I encourage everyone to think carefully about what is most important _to you_ in a partner and insist on finding that person. I suspect that if you limit your list to a realistic number of features that are critical to you, your perspective on long-term relationships may change.