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Questionable Customer?

Patek

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Before Christmas, I ordered a pair of handgrade C&J from Bodileys. I went with a size 11.5 based on emails sent back and forth with Sarah. They fit a little too big, so I returned them for exchange for an 11. The return shipping cost me about $50.

Today I checked my credit card statement and I saw that they had charged me to send out the replacements. I contacted Sarah as I was never told about this charge and never authorized it. Our conversation went like this:

Patek:
"Dear Sarah,
Good morning. I received a charge from you for $39.26 U.S. on January 12, 2011. I was not aware of this charge nor did I authorize it. Please let me know what this is for.
Thank you!"

Sarah:
"The charge will be for the postage of the replacement pair that we have now sent to you, as per our terms and conditions of exchange shoes. I hope they arrive with you soon now."

Patek:
"I did not understand that from the terms and conditions:

"Returns, Exchanges and Refunds. If for any reason you are not happy with the shoes, please return them to us within 14 days of receipt in perfect condition, in the original packaging. Please include the order number and the request for exchange or refund. Refunds will be given less the original cost of postage. Postage costs on returning the shoes will be borne by the customer and the cost of any replacement shoes will also be charged."

It says "the cost of any replacement shoes will also be charged", not specifically the cost of postage. If I had know that, I would have simply returned them as the total I spent now is more than what it would have cost me to purchase them here.

If that is your return policy, you need to update your policy to clearly state that."

Sarah:
"I am very sorry for the confusion. I certainly ask the IT department to change the wording of the terms and conditions to ensure it is clear to all."

Huh? Did I miss something? It does not state that I will be charged for the shipping on the replacement pair.

Shall I push the matter further or just bite the bullet?
 

EBugatti

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Unfortunately, you'll have to bite the bullet in this case.

This is one of the downsides of buying online--especially if you don't know your size in a particular shoe.

Bodileys, et al. will pay for the shipping (return and to send a replacement) if the product was defective upon arrival or the wrong item (e.g. scuffed shoe, wrong color, or you ordered a 9UK and they sent a 10, etc.). They will pay for their mistakes, in other words.

In your case, you ordered an 11.5, and they sent you exactly what you ordered. You were the one that was not satisfied, but they can't be held responsible for that (according to their agreement). Therefore, they will take back the merchandise, but you will be responsible for the shipping. If you decide to order another pair (as you did), you will incur the shipping charges as applicable for the new pair.

In a way, this makes sense--otherwise, you could order several pairs of shoes on them, tie up their inventory while the shoes are in transit and while they are sitting in your home, and then you could simply send back the one(s) you don't want--again at their expense. To avoid this, they have their policy.
 

Icehawk

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Personally, yes I would fight the charge - and if needed would let my CC do it for me.
 

EBugatti

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Originally Posted by Icehawk
Personally, yes I would fight the charge - and if needed would let my CC do it for me.

Where was Bodiley's mistake?

If you owned Bodiley's, and you sent the customer the EXACT SHOE HE ORDERED (no problems or defects), and he decides he doesn't want it, you would agree to pay for the shipping back??? No way you would.

The OP has demonstrated one of the downsides of online buying, but Bodiley's has not done anything wrong here.
 

Patek

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I understand how it makes sense, but that policy has to be clearly stated and agreed to by the customer. I read their policy and agreed to it. Their policy says that shipment is included in the price of the shoe.

I have two problems with what happend:
1.) They charged me without my consent.
2.) The policy that they are saying that they have is not posted and was not agreed to by me.

I don't "have" to bite any bullet on anything. American Express does not take kindly to people charging their customers without their consent. They could have just asked me and let me know what the total was. I do not like being surprised.
 

asdf

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" Refunds will be given less the original cost of postage. "

Unless I misunderstand, this is key. They do not refund the original shipping. Therefore, on an exchange, your net expense is 1x shipping. I find this pretty clear. (?)
 

Patek

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Originally Posted by EBugatti
Where was Bodiley's mistake?

If you owned Bodiley's, and you sent the customer the EXACT SHOE HE ORDERED (no problems or defects), and he decides he doesn't want it, you would agree to pay for the shipping back??? No way you would.

The OP has demonstrated one of the downsides of online buying, but Bodiley's has not done anything wrong here.


Yes they have, charging me without my consent and holding me to a policy that is not posted.
 

Patek

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Originally Posted by asdf
" Refunds will be given less the original cost of postage. "

Unless I misunderstand, this is key. They do not refund the original shipping. Therefore, on an exchange, your net expense is 1x shipping. I find this pretty clear. (?)


That would apply, if I had asked for a refund. Once again, they cannot make up the rules as they go based on something that may or may not be implied.
 

Icehawk

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Originally Posted by Patek
Yes they have, charging me without my consent and holding me to a policy that is not posted.

I agree - if they are going to charge for shipping they MUST have you authorize that.

Beyond that while I'm not sure of Patek's full conversation if I ordered the wrong size of something with the guidance of a customer rep then I do hope for some assistance when I re-order. It's just good business IMO.
 

Raoul Duke

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Originally Posted by asdf
" Refunds will be given less the original cost of postage. " Unless I misunderstand, this is key. They do not refund the original shipping. Therefore, on an exchange, your net expense is 1x shipping. I find this pretty clear. (?)
+1 Not sure what the issue is here. Even if it wasn't explicitly stated, you'd have to assume that a business isn't going to eat the shipping cost on returns.
Originally Posted by Patek
It says “the cost of any replacement shoes will also be charged”, not specifically the cost of postage. If I had know that, I would have simply returned them as the total I spent now is more than what it would have cost me to purchase them here.
If there was only a $40 discount to begin with, why did you bother buying them online? To add to that, if they were readily available, why did you not at the very least check your sizing in person.
 

phoenixrecon

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Originally Posted by Patek
Yes they have, charging me without my consent and holding me to a policy that is not posted.

you asked for an exchange....



that is the consent.
 

rebel222

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Whether it is clearly stated or not, you should be responsible for the shipping. I agree that the wording is confusing; however, if you hadn't ordered the incorrect size, you wouldn't need to worry about the wording.

If the wording of the policy wasn't clear when you originally read it (if you did), then you should have asked. I read it a few times, and it still doesn't make perfect sense; therefore, I would have asked.

Drop you complaint. You live and you learn.
 

EBugatti

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Originally Posted by Patek
That would apply, if I had asked for a refund. Once again, they cannot make up the rules as they go based on something that may or may not be implied.

You were given a refund. I bet your credit card statement will show a return for the amount of the original shoes and then a separate charge for the replacement pair. That is what happens when you send back a product that you don't want. Each is treated as a separate transaction.
 

Patek

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Originally Posted by Icehawk
I agree - if they are going to charge for shipping they MUST have you authorize that.

Beyond that while I'm not sure of Patek's full conversation if I ordered the wrong size of something with the guidance of a customer rep then I do hope for some assistance when I re-order. It's just good business IMO.


That is my point. It is not about the $40, it is about them at least notifying me that I am being charged for something.

Originally Posted by Raoul Duke
+1

Not sure what the issue is here. Even if it wasn't explicitly stated, you'd have to assume that a business isn't going to eat the shipping cost on returns.

If there was only a $40 discount to begin with, why did you bother buying them online? To add to that, if they were readily available, why did you not at the very least check your sizing in person.


No, legally you don't assume anything. I work with contracts all day and nothing is assumed--if it is there it is stated.

I paid $50 to return the shoes and then they charged me another $40 so we are talking close to $100. As stated above, it is not about the money, it is about charging your customers for something without notification much less consent.

Originally Posted by phoenixrecon
you asked for an exchange....



that is the consent.


Wrong, it is not and I'm sure Amex will agree with me if I choose to press the issue.
 

MoosicPa

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Their policy seems pretty clear to me: "and the cost of any replacement shoes will also be charged.." The cost of the replacement shoes would include postage..... no?!?
 

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