Question about C&J Cordovan

[beny]

C&J seems to get good press here, but there is a lot less info regarding their cordovan shoes. I'm curious how C&J cordovan stacks up against Alden cordovan. I know that the general concensus is that C&J is the higher-quality brand, but I think that Alden is known for it's cordovans whereas C&J is known for it's sleeker styles and higher quality.

Here is a pic that I pulled from AAAC forums (Alden on left, C&J on right):

http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/f...ad.php?t=65652

I'm curious why the C&J cordovan seems rather dull, whereas the Alden has a nice sheen.

 

[distinctive]

They both use Horween tanned hides. Alden finishes their cordovan differently though. Honestly, I don't find C & J to be much better quality than Alden although they do have better lasts. In terms of bang for the buck, I'd go with Alden.

 

[von Rothbart]

Someone mentioned Alden is such big customer of Horween, it has the first pick before everyone else.

I don't know if your pair are exception to the norm, but all the C&J cordovan I've seen are on par with Alden. Did you get yours as second?

 

[lee_44106]

I have shoes in shell cordovan by both Alden and C&J.

-leather sources are exactly the same (Horween of Chicago)
-constructions are exactly the same (almost all machine made, with the exception of some handdone parts)
-attention to details (C&J > Alden by just a little little bit)
-value wise, Alden > C&J
-shoe style offerings wise, Alden > C&J
-shoe last sleekness wise, C&J > Alden

 

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by lee_44106

I have shoes in shell cordovan by both Alden and C&J.

-leather sources are exactly the same (Horween of Chicago)
-constructions are exactly the same (almost all machine made, with the exception of some handdone parts)
-attention to details (C&J > Alden by just a little little bit)
-value wise, Alden > C&J
-shoe style offerings wise, Alden > C&J
-shoe last sleekness wise, C&J > Alden
I have both Alden and C&J shells and agree with all the points you've listed.

 

[beny]

The shoes in the picture aren't mine, but I don't believe that they are seconds. Can anyone comment on the photo and why the C&J cordovan is so lackluster?

Also, to people have said that "bang for the buck" and "value wise" Alden is better: where are you guys finding inexpensive Aldens? Getting C&J shell cordovans from PLal comes out to around $550... most Aldens that I see online are at or above this price point.

 

[lee_44106]

Discounted Alden shell cordovans are extremely rare. The best you can do is through Brooks Brothers, when you can catch a good sale. All of BB's shell cordovan offerings are made by Alden.

If you can get C&J shell offerings at $550 thru PLAL, then that's great.

 

[beny]

Originally Posted by lee_44106

Discounted Alden shell cordovans are extremely rare. The best you can do is through Brooks Brothers, when you can catch a good sale. All of BB's shell cordovan offerings are made by Alden.

If you can get C&J shell offerings at $550 thru PLAL, then that's great.

So when you previously said "-value wise, Alden > C&J", I'm assuming that this was under the assumption that C&J shells are more expensive than Alden ones. If it was the same price for both shoes, how would this change your opinion? Is Alden still a better value? I'm looking to pick up another pair of shoes and don't know whether I should go with Alden...

 

[von Rothbart]

The only known source for Alden second is Shoemart in Norwalk CT. They accept phone order, so give them a call to find out what they have in cordovan. There's an extra 10% off during their semi-annual sale.

 

[johnny_flapjack]

I've got C&J shell sold as Ralph Lauren and Alden shell sold as Brooks Brothers. I got the BB/Alden the day after Christmas when they were doing their 25% + 15% sale, so they came out to about $365 or so before tax & shipping. I got the Ralpha Lauren/C&J shoes in November when they do their 40% + 15% sale, and they came out to $351 before tax & shipping.

I think RL has four or five styles of C&J cordovan: Full strap loafer, tassle loafer, chukka boot, wingtip blucher, plain toe blucher. Per the BB website, they've got about 8 styles of Alden shell. The RL C&J gives you a couple of shell options that C&J doesn't sell, and the brown colored shell, which is why I settled on the two pair I bought from them.

As far as quality, I think I was prepared to be more impressed with the C&J than I was. The uppers are nice, and the shine does not yet appear to be a problem (though they are fairly new) but the trim work on the heels seemed like it wasn't done too well - that might be me nit-picking, but when you're looking at shoes that cost that much, you'd (or maybe I'd) expect the finish to be better. So I guess in the end I see it as almost a toss-up on quality. Again, that's my take from a very small sample - others with more of each might disagree.

One last thought. theshoemart.com is the only place through which Alden unloads their seconds. All of their shell seconds are $350, so it might be worth calling Ed at the shoe mart and seeing what they have in your size. I've purchased one pair that way (which unfortunately didn't fit) and there really wasn't anything glaringly wrong with them.

OK, I'll stop talking now.

 

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by johnny_flapjack

I think RL has four or five styles of C&J cordovan: Full strap loafer, tassle loafer, chukka boot, wingtip blucher, plain toe blucher.


Does RL still sell the chukka boot? I'd love to get a pair but I haven't seen it on their website or in stores. If you know of a source then please let me know.

 

[johnny_flapjack]

Yes, last time I saw. It's the MacCallum, I think? My local RL store does not carry many of their better shoes, but they have a catalog behind the counter that has every style of shoe that RL carries in it. I want that boot b/c it's a shell chukka in brown, which seems harder to find, and I like the shape of the toe. Last I saw, they were around $900 retail, so if you can wait until the Nov. sale and have them ordered for you, they'd be about half that - assuming the prices don't shoot up like I've heard they are on the RLPL shoes made by EG.

 

[saint]

Originally Posted by JayJay

Does RL still sell the chukka boot? I'd love to get a pair but I haven't seen it on their website or in stores. If you know of a source then please let me know.

I bought a pair about 5 months ago on sale from the Atlanta RL store (they actually didn't think they had them but when the clerk checked the stockroom they had one pair, and it was my size). At that time the Mansion was the only other store that had them, and as stated by JF above, they are now $900. They are my favorite pair of shell cordo (I have 3 prs Alden and the Darlton wingtips as well). I'd call around and see if you can find them at another RL store. Good luck.

 

[PittDoc]

My C&J full-strap loafers (Polo Marlow) seem to have a harder leather on the double sole than the Aldens. They are also taking longer to break in as a result. Also, as mentioned, the brown isn't dyed as dark, the way Alden does their "cigar." Therefore, they have more variation in color, if you like that sort of thing. I may post a side by side pic.

 

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by johnny_flapjack

Yes, last time I saw. It's the MacCallum, I think? My local RL store does not carry many of their better shoes, but they have a catalog behind the counter that has every style of shoe that RL carries in it. I want that boot b/c it's a shell chukka in brown, which seems harder to find, and I like the shape of the toe. Last I saw, they were around $900 retail, so if you can wait until the Nov. sale and have them ordered for you, they'd be about half that - assuming the prices don't shoot up like I've heard they are on the RLPL shoes made by EG.
I may make a few calls. I really like the RL shells I have now and can see adding the chukka. The slimmer shape of the toe on the RL shoes is much nicer than Alden IMO and the color fits nicely with the clothing I wear.