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Question about a navy grenadine tie

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by iatrogenic, May 22, 2012.

  1. davesmith

    davesmith Senior member Affiliate Vendor

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    An internet problem has been highlighted here. It is sometimes hard to express yourself.

    I was expressing my apologies about jacking the thread. You just got there first and therefore I jumped on the bandwagon.

    I'll send you a free pocket square to make you feel better! haha.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2012
  2. SpooPoker

    SpooPoker Internet Bigtimer and Most Popular Man on Campus Dubiously Honored Affiliate Vendor

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    *buuuurp*
     
  3. Dib

    Dib Senior member

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    I've worn ties from most of the brands/makers mentioned in this thread and I have to say that I always end up wearing my Drakes more than any of the others. They feel solid and well made, tend to tie a great knot and drape beautifully. One of the big advantages with ties from Sam Hober is that you can fully customise them, but this is also now possible with Drakes ties (i.e. the bespoke section on the Drakes website allows you to order ties (including navy grenadine) to your preferred width and length).
     
  4. Henry Carter

    Henry Carter Senior member Affiliate Vendor

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    I missed this thread last week while away on Holidays and we have been mentioned so i'll throw my 2 cents in.

    Firstly I'll respectfully disagree with David that all RTW ties will be of lesser quality than a bespoke tie. Most will sure, but there are so many variants in fabric, construction etc that's it's really comparing apples to oranges. A lot of people will buy a Drakes tie because it's Drakes for example, so there is the element of the brand that drives their prices up but that doesn't really apply to us for example.

    I can only speak of my own ties in regards to the construction as I've not pulled the others mentioned apart (though do own both Hober and Drakes). In my case, I sell my Italian 7 folds (what David would call a 6 fold) which are handmade in Naples and self tipped for $99.95 and I'll be doing a range of un-tipped ones with hand-rolled edges for only $109.95 AUD in August/September. But I can keep my prices lower and still enjoy a half decent profit margin because I'm a small business or "Micro Brand" as someone else called us with lower overheads, which I'm completely comfortable with. But I can tell you my construction is top notch because I look at them all day everyday.

    At the end of the day you just have to weigh up the pluses and minuses. Obviously with Bespoke you have a longer lead time, just like with bespoke clothes where as the RTW carry the stock in hand ready to send out quickly, so if you can find what you want in RTW then is there a point with going bespoke? Well you get to choose the length, width plus all the other things David is so good with. But that's up to the individual to decide I guess.

    And I also think that it's worth supporting the vendors that support the forum with their own cash, whomever you choose to go with. Before I started the business I'd bought and continue to buy off a lot of the other affiliates, including ehaberdasher, panta, Kent Wang, Malford, AFPOS, Howard Yount, the Armoury etc etc. It's a great community we have here.

    Regards,
    Jason
     
  5. zerostyle

    zerostyle Senior member

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    Suggestions for a more affordable, but decent quality navy grenadine tie? I can't spend that much =/
     
  6. Liquidus

    Liquidus Senior member

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  7. rs232

    rs232 Senior member

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    I always figured that, for the retail price of a KW, you may as well go for a Hober and get the your exact dimensions/length. I've got a KW 8cm tip, but it's skinny at the knot - doesn't dimple that easily. However, it's still quality lining, so it will dimple with a little care, and drapes well. Now, Charles Tyrwhitt grenadines, on the other hand, need to be relined after you pull them out of the cellophane - stiff and lifeless.

    So getting back to the OP's original question, if it has to be a workhorse tie and you have particular requirements, custom is the way to go.
     
  8. Sam Hober

    Sam Hober Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    zerostyle,

    I have heard Chipp2s grenadines described as a good value, here is a review that was mailed to me one year ago:


    "In one of the forums someone had asked about the Chipp2 Grenadine ties.

    If you recall I ordered a dark red and bright blue from you and I own several of the Chipp2 grenadines. The Chipp2 grenadines are all garza fina and appear to be from a nice reputable mill.

    I think there is slightly less sheen than your ties so they don't look as expensive.

    The construction, however, is quite different. The Chipp2 ties are not self tipped and the back is lined with a black almost polyester like fabric. The lining also seems a little lighter and not sure if it is pure wool. There is no question that your ties are more impressive, but the Chipp2 ties are only $40 so some decent value compared to other off the rack grenadines. If I had to draw a comparison would probably say they are similar to J. Press ties."


    The price might be higher this year give them a call and ask for swatches.



    Jason,


    "Firstly I'll respectfully disagree with David that all RTW ties will be of lesser quality than a bespoke tie. Most will sure, but there are so many variants in fabric, construction etc that's it's really comparing apples to oranges."

    And very politely and respectfully I will hold steady in my agreement with the school of thought that handmade custom ties will be better in terms of attention to small details than ready made ties. Now will there be some clothing made by low end/inexperienced tie makers that are not as good as some ready-made clothing - certainly yes.

    My comments about bespoke/custom ties and clothes are directed towards the best at what they do. As for hand made ties from Naples they can make beautiful ties if they slow down and take great care in what they do but typically the tie making contractors operate at very fast speeds and their quality control is not consistent. You really need to be there to keep an eye on them nothing else will give you the quality control that you need. I have never heard a tie maker disagree with my observations and this includes mass market tie makers.

    I once had "V." a tie making company from the Naples area send me in the mail unsolicited samples in the hopes of us buying from them the quality was not even close to acceptable.

    Another time the younger son of a wool fabric company in the north of Italy whom we were friendly with tried to get us to sell his ties. He sent us samples and while better than the ties made in Naples still had small problems that those in the ready made tie business tend to not be concerned about.

    So I wish you the best of luck with your business but I am 100% certain that 99 percent of the time a bespoke/custom made tie will be better both in the construction and measurements. It is natural as a bespoke tie takes on average 2 to 4 times as long to make as a tie built under contract. The extra time comes partially from making patterns but also from paying attention to the smallest details. Note, luxury fabrics are available for both ready-made and bespoke ties.


    rs232,


    Thank you for your kind words.

    I can understand the purchase of a ready-made tie if it is the design and color that catch your eye and not available at a similar price-point in a custom version.

    Or if the tie must be shipped that day for a wedding.

    When all is going smoothly for us we average 5 days to make an order, but it will be hard for us to get much quicker than that.

    Dib,


    "One of the big advantages with ties from Sam Hober is that you can fully customise them, but this is also now possible with Drakes ties (i.e. the bespoke section on the Drakes website allows you to order ties (including navy grenadine) to your preferred width and length)."

    Thank you for thinking us, although I am confused by your comment about Drakes as made-to-measure ties are basically limited to fabric, length and width choices which is what I saw a while back when I looked at the Drakes site. Maybe they have expanded their options.

    A bespoke/custom made tie is more complex: You first talk with your tie maker for as long as is needed then you have many construction options. the time that is required to customize your tie and keep track of your preferences for future orders is a big factor in the ties cost.
     

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