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Question about a navy grenadine tie

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by iatrogenic, May 22, 2012.

  1. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic Senior member

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    Hi guys,

    Getting ready to order my first navy grenadine tie. Since I think its going to be a staple, I wanted to get it right.

    I am thinking about ordering from Sam Hober. David has been amazing, explaining to me my different options. I was initially thinking of a 7 fold unlined tie however David suggested I go with a 6 fold lined tie.
    I wanted to see if anyone had any opinions.

    Also, I will be paying approximately $120 + shipping I believe for the tie. I know that I saw a Drakes navy grenadine for $150 and I know that pants has them for around the same price. Any thoughts?

    Look forward to hearing from you all. David has been great so I will likely order some ties from him but I wanted to get this first one right.

    -Shaun
     
  2. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic Senior member

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    I forgot...I am also considering Henry Carter. Jason has also been very helpful.
     
  3. Renton

    Renton Senior member

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    I can only comment on David's ties, but my lined 6 fold navy fina has been a workhorse since I bought it.
     
  4. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic Senior member

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    Thanks. Do you have any photos by any chance?
     
  5. Renton

    Renton Senior member

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    Unfortunately, after an encounter with a leaky pizza box, it's packed up to be shipped to Tie Crafters for cleaning.
     
  6. Sam Hober

    Sam Hober Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Iatrogenic,

    I think that you are leaving something important out of the equation:

    Our Sam Hober ties are custom made which means that we make our ties very slowly and carefully - you won't find this in ready made ties.

    You will find luxury fabrics but not the same construction quality.

    Also a $150 grenadine from Drakes will typically be a 3-fold not a 6-fold.

    Also our 4-fold ties have exactly the same construction quality as our 6-folds - you may want to consider a 4-fold at $80 unless you know already that you prefer teh heavier feeling/drape of a 6-fold - which is a nice luxury but needed.
     
  7. gyasih

    gyasih Senior member

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    You have Hober, Panta and Vanda-all will better quality (IMHO) than the Drake's
     
  8. F. Corbera

    F. Corbera Senior member

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    wut?
     
  9. SpooPoker

    SpooPoker Internet Bigtimer and Most Popular Man on Campus Dubiously Honored Affiliate Vendor

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    :lurk:
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2012
  10. gyasih

    gyasih Senior member

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    What part didn't you understand?? I know I forgot to add "be" between will and better. OP started with Hober and then added Henry Carter, so I gave him other suggestions.

    So, is your confusion with the additional suggestions or the comment on quality? Would you like to add "for the price"?
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2012
  11. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic Senior member

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    Hi guys,

    Thanks for all the great feedback. Probably going to get a tie from both Hober and Henry Carter because both have been very helpful. Also look forward to trying out the other brands in the future.

    -Shaun
     
  12. davesmith

    davesmith Senior member Affiliate Vendor

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    While I haven't had the privilege of handling Hober, Panta & Vanda, I am tired of people calling Drake's a rip-off shop. There are far more expensive ties out there than Drake's (Isaia, Kiton, Ricci, Brioni to name a few).

    Also, Hober operates out of the far east where everything is considerably cheaper, even though he always protests otherwise. Panta ain't so cheap. Vanda is a tiny operation and ain't so cheap either.

    Drake's has plenty of options that aren't offered by any other tie manufacturer. (Shantung, novelty pocket squares etc...)
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2012
  13. gyasih

    gyasih Senior member

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    I appreciate the comment dave. I didn't call Drake's a rip-off. Out of the all the ties I have, I believe Drake's dominate my collection. Your comment provides a little more content than a blanket "wut." OP asked for opinions, my comment wasn't a condemnation of Drake's I love their stuff compared to many of the more expensive options.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2012
  14. davesmith

    davesmith Senior member Affiliate Vendor

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    I understand that you like Drake's and I wasn't attacking you.

    There is another thread on the go at the moment about a guy that wants to go into the tie business and asked what price he should sell them at, he doesn't realize half the things that he has to factor into that cost.

    I am 100% sure that Drake's pays far more in bills and manpower than Hober, London is incredibly expensive, especially where Drake's is located and as I said before Panta and Vanda aren't cheap options either.


    (I could be talking rubbish now, but IMHO, luxury brands charge what they do for exclusivity, in certain cases they could cost the same amount to produce as other manufacturers but they charge more to establish their brand as targeting a certain clientele. To call your brand luxury and charge $15 a tie, no-one will take you seriously.)


    Edit: If F. Corbera wanted he could transform that "wut?" into a informative post that would blow me out of the water, until he does, I'll take that as a compliment! Thanks!
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2012
  15. gyasih

    gyasih Senior member

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    Great. :fistbump: I just didn't want this to turn into something else. I am sure that F. Corbera knows more about ties than me. But, more insight would have guided my response and it wasn't an attack on him either. IMHO (In My Humble Opinion).

    Now we can go back to assisting the OP-sorry to thread jack.
     
  16. Gdot

    Gdot Senior member

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    Absolutely - nothing wrong with this. They simply have a client base and business model which allows them to make maximum profits from smaller quantities of business than others might. Margins are indeed often higher on luxury goods - the buyer is paying for the assurance that they will not encounter others in their social circle with items of an identical nature to theirs. Thus assuring their own superiority.

    More markup? So much the better!!!!! After all - it's a small price to pay in order to acheive 'world domination'. (Or something like that.)
     
  17. Sam Hober

    Sam Hober Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    DaveSmith,


    I am not sure what you are thinking about but no one in this thread has said anything bad about Drakes and yes, they are expensive which is very normal for retail stores.

    As for our operating costs - very softly, gently and politely you are simply not correct.

    First, we are not in the Far East, we are in Thailand which is in South East Asia. Although labor costs are lower here than in the West, they are fast rising under new laws and training costs here are higher than in America for a variety of reasons. Luxury businesses in Thailand very often have Expat managment which is more expensive than it would be in the US.

    Second, as I have mentioned before Sam Hober is an American owned, operated and managed business with American salaries and taxes paid.

    Our raw material costs are higher than those for tie makers in England or Italy. Our silk prices have gone up and up over the last 5 years since we moved to Thailand yet we have not raised our tie prices and instead have actually lowered some prices.

    Our transportation and shipping costs are higher.

    Gasoline and car costs are higher here.

    We have very few cost savings here. Car and computer companies in Thailand have large factories with a small number of expat managers and they do have large cost savings but not small workshops like ours.

    I could go on but I hope that you are starting to see the facts. Please feel free to email me if you do not understand and I will be happy to talk to you.

    So in summary, your statement: "Hober operates out of the far east where everything is considerably cheaper,..." is false and misleading and I would appreciate it you would have the courtesy to check your facts before posting, Thailand is not China.

    I can say that fruits and vegetables are much lower in cost here and amazingly fresh and flavorful. Orchids which I love are also very inexpensive here.

    While I also have not had the chance of wearing a Vanda tie I can tell you that I would be happy to do so as from what I can see they take pride in making by hand their ties in their own small workshop and there are so few of those left - it is great to encourage them. Hopefully, one day I will visit Singapore and have a chance to meet them. (Also Singapore labor costs are quite high so their ties are not cheap to make)

    Maybe we will sit in Raffles wearing Vanda ties and have lunch...
     
  18. davesmith

    davesmith Senior member Affiliate Vendor

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    This.

    @Hober - Your responses are always AWESOME! It is amazing you take the time. I am not worthy of it. Sounds like you are a bad business man to me in that case! That or you really like providing amazing ties at an even better price. (I think it is the later.)
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2012
  19. Sam Hober

    Sam Hober Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    DaveSmith,

    I am easygoing - all is well.

    I am a long term businessman and I do plan on returning to more mulberry/silk farming which with a blend of Western technology and Thai tradition hopefully will give us a raw material advantage for silk down the road.

    We take great pride in what we do so a small profit margin is OK for us.

    Now back to our previously scheduled program....,
     
  20. gyasih

    gyasih Senior member

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    DaveSmith, really?? No need to highlight my thread jack statement, it was you and others who threw your comments into my response, without really speaking to the OP's question, which I did. That, I took as an attack, and I'm off my meds, so I am sensitive :)
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2012

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