Quality pant construction

[itsstillmatt]

I was reading through a post made sometime last year on the construction of a quality suit, and pant construction came up. The basic gist of the info was that in NY almost all of the seams are machine sewn and that everybody uses the same pantmaker. I wanted to put up some pics of the inside of some trousers made in Naples by the same pantmaker that some of you ordered from earlier this year. Any comments on the utility of sewing some of the areas by hand would be very welcome. Particularly information would be great on why the seat seam is handsewn as opposed to almost all ofther pants that you see. In addition to what is shown, the waistband is set in by hand as are the pockets and beltloops. The outseam is also hand lapped. Enjoy the pics:

 

[LuxireStudio]

Just saw this post and wanted of share my thoughts:

Sewing the seat seam by hand have some distinct properties:

1. Machine made stitches move with each other. Hand made stitches move independent of each other.
2. Hand made stitches have some amount of play - Enough to add a bit of spring to the seam when stretched without really showing whats inside.

Strength is sometimes a concern with hand-made stitches, which is overcome by using a thicker, stronger thread and making overlapped stitches - also called ruckstitch or backstitch.

The advantage is better fall and movement. Falls cleanly as each aspect has a bit more room. Movement is a bit more localized to the part moved instead of moving everything else with it.

 

[aristoi bcn]

Nice Ambrosi's?

I like the cloth and the lining, are the buttons plastic or corozo? Never can tell the difference between materials in this button model.

In my own experience the biggest difference is in the waistband. Handstitched waistbands are slightly more comfortable to wear but I can't tell why.

 

[dieworkwear]



Just saw this post and wanted of share my thoughts:

Sewing the seat seam by hand have some distinct properties:  

1. Machine made stitches move with each other.  Hand made stitches move independent of each other. 
2. Hand made stitches have some amount of play - Enough to add a bit of  spring to the seam when stretched without really showing whats inside.

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Strength is sometimes a concern with hand-made stitches, which is overcome by using a thicker, stronger thread and making overlapped stitches - also called ruckstitch or backstitch.

The advantage is better fall and movement. Falls cleanly as each aspect has a bit more room. Movement is a bit more localized to the part moved instead of moving everything else with it.

I believe this was once true, but not anymore.

http://tuttofattoamano.blogspot.com/2009/12/getting-into-huntsmans-trousers.html

Nice to do for tradition's sake, however.

Nice Ambrosi's?

I like the cloth and the lining, are the buttons plastic or corozo? Never can tell the difference between materials in this button model.

In my own experience the biggest difference is in the waistband. Handstitched waistbands are slightly more comfortable to wear but I can't tell why.

I haven't noticed any difference in mine, but a handsewn waistband gives a cleaner interior look.

 

[LuxireStudio]

I believe this was once true, but not anymore.

http://tuttofattoamano.blogspot.com/2009/12/getting-into-huntsmans-trousers.html

Nice to do for tradition's sake, however.

Thank you! Had read that post before too and like most things said by Mr Diduch, is beyond argument.

There are special machines available for almost any tailoring function. It is often amazing to see the kind of work some of these special machines can do. Bangalore has a large number of garment manufacturing companies and thus is easy to see all kind of technologies in use. Also machinery exhibitions have them very well displayed.

But, a lot of MTM/MTO/Bespoke setups do not have these machines. One, they can be expensive and more importantly, the task of moving from machine to machine for each process, changing threads, setting them up etc are not worth it for individual tailoring tasks. These machines are designed for mass production of garments where you set it up once for a batch an keep getting excellent output.

We had got a machine for doing the bottom fold of pants. The end finish is almost like hand and much more uniform. But, the setup is a pain. The looping mechanism needed changing based on type of fabric - and remained a pain to use. The machine is thus put to very little use by us.

For individual projects, hand stitching if often faster and easier for some of the tasks.

------------------------
The whole innovation in the garment industry is happening around the idea of reducing work-force and reducing dependency on labor. A lot of the finer tailoring techniques re being lost in the melee.
A concerted effort is needed to keep them alive. We at Luxire are trying to do our best to bring back to live these lost techniques, one at a time.

There is a small but significant difference between "perfection" and "a good compromise".

 

[dieworkwear]



Thank you! Had read that post before too and like most things said by Mr Diduch, is beyond argument.

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

There are special machines available for almost any tailoring function. It is often amazing to see the kind of work some of these special machines can do. Bangalore has a large number of garment manufacturing companies and thus is easy to see all kind of technologies in use. Also machinery exhibitions have them very well displayed.

But, a lot of MTM/MTO/Bespoke setups do not have these machines. One, they can be expensive and more importantly, the task of moving from machine to machine for each process, changing threads, setting them up etc are not worth it for individual tailoring tasks. These machines are designed for mass production of garments where you set it up once for a batch an keep getting excellent output.

We had got a machine for doing the bottom fold of pants. The end finish is almost like hand and much more uniform. But, the setup is a pain. The looping mechanism needed changing based on type of fabric - and remained a pain to use. The machine is thus put to very little use by us.

For individual projects, hand stitching if often faster and easier for some of the tasks.

------------------------
The whole innovation in the garment industry is happening around the idea of reducing work-force and reducing dependency on labor.  A lot of the finer tailoring techniques re being lost in the melee. 
A concerted effort is needed to keep them alive.  We at Luxire are trying to do our best to bring back to live these lost techniques, one at a time.

There is a small but significant difference between "perfection" and "a good compromise".

Sure, but to Matt's question above, the reason why there's more handwork in Italian trousers seems to be about the relative cost of labor to machines. Labor is cheap there, particularly in the south. And if you're a small outfit making a small number of trousers per year, it doesn't make sense to invest in the machinery. I get the impression that tailors just talk up the back sewn handsewing thing as a marketing line (had a Neapolitan tailor who once told me this -- hand sewn seams are better for larger men cause they have more give and are less likely to break, etc etc etc).

Conversely, in the US, labor cost is higher. And if you're a larger operation doing a larger number of trousers, there's more of an incentive to invest in the machinery.

Perfectly fine, I think, if a shop finds their own best way of doing things. But I don't think there's an inherent advantage to handsewing in trousers.

To answer Matt's point, the reason why there's a lot of handwork in Italian trousers is because 1) labor is cheap, 2) machinery is expensive, 3) yearly output is low, and 4) handwork helps sell garments, esp with all the decorative pick stitching, etc.

When I get bespoke trousers, I prefer a lot of handwork, but just as a matter of craft. I don't think there's any practical advantage in it. For ready to wear, I don't really care either way.

 

[LuxireStudio]

Sure, but to Matt's question above, the reason why there's more handwork in Italian trousers seems to be about the relative cost of labor to machines. Labor is cheap there, particularly in the south. And if you're a small outfit making a small number of trousers per year, it doesn't make sense to invest in the machinery. I get the impression that tailors just talk up the back sewn handsewing thing as a marketing line (had a Neapolitan tailor who once told me this -- hand sewn seams are better for larger men cause they have more give and are less likely to break, etc etc etc).

Conversely, in the US, labor cost is higher. And if you're a larger operation doing a larger number of trousers, there's more of an incentive to invest in the machinery.

Perfectly fine, I think, if a shop finds their own best way of doing things. But I don't think there's an inherent advantage to handsewing in trousers.

To answer Matt's point, the reason why there's a lot of handwork in Italian trousers is because 1) labor is cheap, 2) machinery is expensive, 3) yearly output is low, and 4) handwork helps sell garments, esp with all the decorative pick stitching, etc.

When I get bespoke trousers, I prefer a lot of handwork, but just as a matter of craft. I don't think there's any practical advantage in it. For ready to wear, I don't really care either way.

There is one more aspect related to hand-work on Italian clothing: Most of the Italian tailors I have worked with are not young. They are happy running their small shops and producing the best they can. They have been doing their work in a particular way, making only the number of garments they can produce with ease and do not generally have the inclination to innovate or change.

As for there being no advantage of hand-sewing, I think there is a bit more to it, which we are working on documenting. A large part of my time goes into working on improvement techniques for making garments better. Often, issues that we struggle with for months, happen to get resolved when we do the same process by hand.