Proper Cloth - Official Affiliate Thread

[Pb924]

If you’re obsessing about 1/8” changes to your pattern, you’ll never be satisfied. Given production tolerances it’s an unrealistic expectation

 

[JustinW]

How colorfast is the $85 oxford? Should I hand wash separately and add some vinegar the first couple of washes?

 

[Waldo Jeffers]

How colorfast is the $85 oxford? Should I hand wash separately and add some vinegar the first couple of washes?

i have the light blue and the blue university stripe

I haven’t noticed any major color fading

 

[mux8]

Fit critique? It feels like this shirt is going to rip when I cross my arms or wash my hands (tightness in the upper arm holes and elbows and shoulder region)....

In a Hudson fabric. Maybe this fabric is a little too thin (I never wear undershirts)? I'm contemplating to do the White 120s 3-Ply instead or the Greenwich (not sure if any thicker) any other suggestions? Maybe the Greenwich has more stretch or give? I'm not sure about the 3-ply but I suspect it wouldn't give stretch as much as the Hudson.

 

[Waldo Jeffers]

That looks like a pretty good fit to me. If you want to improve range of motion you could add rear pleats on the back

 

[mux8]

That looks like a pretty good fit to me. If you want to improve range of motion you could add rear pleats on the back

I'm trying to avoid rear pleats because I hate them

 

[patliean1]

Considering Proper Cloth's rigid algorithms and restrictive options I would say that fit isn't outstanding but is at least wearable, especially underneath a jacket.

But in terms of MTM I would say the fit isn't any better than a RTW shirt. My two shirts from PC suffer from almost the same type of wrinkles which tells me the core issue is within their pattern making, and not with user measurements.

 

[mux8]

Considering Proper Cloth's rigid algorithms and restrictive options I would say that fit isn't outstanding but is at least wearable, especially underneath a jacket.

But in terms of MTM I would say the fit isn't any better than a RTW shirt. My two shirts from PC suffer from almost the same type of wrinkles which tells me the core issue is within their pattern making, and not with user measurements.

Right...something doesn't feel fantastic about the shirt and I can't put my hands on what exactly. Maybe the fabric? This is the Hudson fabric and I am thinking if I should try something else.

Most notably the stitching and fusing looks very "mechanical" and cheap? My 30$ Calvin Klein shirt looks to have a more natural stitching with a better weight thread. Stretching my arms to cross my hands, it feels like the seams are about to rip around the shoulder area and I have tight pulling at the elbows. At the same time I really would like to have this work out because it would make ordering shirts very easy.

 

[paulraphael]

Right...something doesn't feel fantastic about the shirt and I can't put my hands on what exactly. Maybe the fabric? This is the Hudson fabric.

Most notably the stitching and fusing looks very "mechanical" and cheap? My 30$ Calvin Klein shirt looks to have more natural stitching with a better weight thread. Stretching my arms to cross my hands, it feels like every seam is about to rip around the shoulder area and elbows. At the same time I really would like to have this work out because it would make ordering shirts very easy.

A few thoughts.

For whatever reason, I've found it much trickier getting the fit right with the dress shirt fabrics than with the casual shirt fabrics. It took four iterations to get a decent dress shirt fit, and I think there's still room for improvement. It's still better than any OTR shirt, and it looks great under a jacket.

The wrinkle-resistant fabrics like Hudson are sewn with fusible interlining in the body and shoulder seams. This helps with wrinkle resistance, but gives a stiffer, somewhat more artificial look. I don't think the seams look bad when the shirt is on; ymmv.

For me the hardest aspects of fit were the shoulder slope and neck posture, which are determined more by the fitter's experience (or by trial and error) than by measurement. I had my fittings done at the PC showroom, and they never got these right. They sometimes even made adjustments in the wrong direction. Eventually I figured out the geometry and worked it out on my own. Hey PC! Are you listening? Your staff is awesome, but you should hire a real tailor to train everyone and to run the showroom.

Something to consider: the more closely fitted you want your shirt, the more precise everything has to be. My OTR shirts all fit 1990's style (remember Seinfeld's pirate blouse?) and so a half inch here or there made zero difference. I'm trying to get a tailored fit from my PC shirts, so these little details of shoulder slope and 1/4" adjustments make differences I can see and feel.

It take some patience. Unless you're an outlier, you should be able to get a great fit eventually. Don't be shy about asking PC to make good on their promise to get it right.

 

[paulraphael]

Also: I see you're thinking about the 120s 3-ply white fabric. I tried this and really didn't like it. It was not as soft as the numbers suggest and it was almost supernaturally wrinkle prone. I switched back to the Hudson. A little less opaque but nicer overall. I think the only better options would be the higher end Thomas Mason fabrics ... and I'm not excited about spending a lot of money on a white shirt that will meet its untimely end via coffee or pizza sauce.

 

[mux8]

A few thoughts.

For whatever reason, I've found it much trickier getting the fit right with the dress shirt fabrics than with the casual shirt fabrics. It took four iterations to get a decent dress shirt fit, and I think there's still room for improvement. It's still better than any OTR shirt, and it looks great under a jacket.

The wrinkle-resistant fabrics like Hudson are sewn with fusible interlining in the body and shoulder seams. This helps with wrinkle resistance, but gives a stiffer, somewhat more artificial look. I don't think the seams look bad when the shirt is on; ymmv.

For me the hardest aspects of fit were the shoulder slope and neck posture, which are determined more by the fitter's experience (or by trial and error) than by measurement. I had my fittings done at the PC showroom, and they never got these right. They sometimes even made adjustments in the wrong direction. Eventually I figured out the geometry and worked it out on my own. Hey PC! Are you listening? Your staff is awesome, but you should hire a real tailor to train everyone and to run the showroom.

Something to consider: the more closely fitted you want your shirt, the more precise everything has to be. My OTR shirts all fit 1990's style (remember Seinfeld's pirate blouse?) and so a half inch here or there made zero difference. I'm trying to get a tailored fit from my PC shirts, so these little details of shoulder slope and 1/4" adjustments make differences I can see and feel.

It take some patience. Unless you're an outlier, you should be able to get a great fit eventually. Don't be shy about asking PC to make good on their promise to get it right.

This is very informative. Thank you very much for the detailed response. Let me ask you a couple of further question. Yes I felt like when I visited the NYC store the specialist took as little time as possible to measure me and input them into the computer and have the fitting done. Even though I persisted with questions regarding the numbers so that I could better understand the resulting fit I would receive.

How were you able to dial in you numbers? Did you have better luck through PC email or further visits?

Do you have any suggested fabrics other than Hudson?

 

[Dapp]

First post in 4 years, yikes!

I'm looking to buy a handful of shirts from Proper Cloth (or the like). I'm tired of poor fitting button downs and want to spend a little more on shirts that actually fit well. I work at a FAANG as a Product Manager and after a couple promotions, I want to dress a little bit nicer. That said, these shirts will mostly be worn untucked with either jeans or something like Epaulet Rivet Chinos (yes, that is a little bit nicer).

Any suggestions on what I should look for style and material-wise to get started? I travel and meet with others a lot, so material that can stand up to some abuse is desired. I know Proper Cloth has performance shirts, which seem like a reasonable first step but didn't know how they look in person.

 

[EZB]

First post in 4 years, yikes!

I'm looking to buy a handful of shirts from Proper Cloth (or the like). I'm tired of poor fitting button downs and want to spend a little more on shirts that actually fit well. I work at a FAANG as a Product Manager and after a couple promotions, I want to dress a little bit nicer. That said, these shirts will mostly be worn untucked with either jeans or something like Epaulet Rivet Chinos (yes, that is a little bit nicer).

Any suggestions on what I should look for style and material-wise to get started? I travel and meet with others a lot, so material that can stand up to some abuse is desired. I know Proper Cloth has performance shirts, which seem like a reasonable first step but didn't know how they look in person.

I have about 25 proper clothing shirts. I also work in FAANG, and so most of my newer shirts are worn untucked. I love the merino wool shirts. They work well casual and untucked and are warm in winter and cool in summer. They are expensive though. I also wear Canclini flannel, which are also expensive. I have some limited edition Japanese fabrics as well. A good starter shirt may be an oxford cut shorter for untucked wear—I have 3 or 4 of them.

 

[StanleyVanBuren]

So when did the button spacing change? I'm going to guess this occurred when the factory switch was made a few years ago. Has anyone else noticed this? On my early orders, the bottom button was placed fairly close to the bottom of the shirt. On recent orders using the same exact shirt length, the bottom button is now significantly higher. This one change actually makes a huge difference as it's the difference between the shirt staying tucked or not.

All of my shirts with the higher bottom button have a harder time staying tucked as the last bottom falls at or slightly above the waist of my trousers. The original PC shirts have the bottom button falling at least an inch below the waist of my trousers, and this keeps everything in place and keeps the shirt tucked.

It's a small change and has taken me awhile to track down. It's something that shouldn't make too much of a difference, but it turns out it does. It's a shame that small tweaks like this get made, which then result in a different shirt despite being based on the exact same pattern/measurements.

 

[shirtsnob]

Why would a 1/8" increment help with your elbows? Just go up 1/4" if it’s too tight.

my more recent shirts from PC have a triple pleat at the cuff...that helps. I dont want .1 for my elbows..i want it for other areas of the shirt.

re the .25" increments offered...it is just too large