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Probably embarassingly basic denim Q

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by Lucky Strike, Dec 18, 2006.

  1. Lucky Strike

    Lucky Strike Senior member

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    What's the stripey effect that appears in some denim over time, and how is it achieved? Has it anything to do with being "ringspun", or am I completely off the mark? This is what I mean: [​IMG]
     
  2. denimdestroyedmylife

    denimdestroyedmylife Senior member

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    that is an effect of the weave, not how the yarns are spun.
    sorry, charlie, i'd expand on that if i could, but that is the limit of my brain.
     
  3. thereverend

    thereverend Senior member

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    Are those wranglers? I didn't know that Wranglers would do that. I think it has been discussed before. If I remember correctly it has something to do with the fact that some of the yarn is thinner than the other parts. If you look up close the parts that stay dark will look like smaller threads and the parts that turn white or get very light are fatter and thus wear more quickly. I don't really know if this is correct, I think this is what the conclusion of the discussion was last time this came up.
     
  4. denimdestroyedmylife

    denimdestroyedmylife Senior member

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    huh.

    it does look like a broken twill, so wrangler would be a good guess.

    i doubt there would be much variation in thread thickness with wrangler jeans. i am guessing that stripiness is a result of some of the vertical threads being raised.
     
  5. Lucky Strike

    Lucky Strike Senior member

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    They're Nudie Slim Jims, I think about three-four years old.
     
  6. denimdestroyedmylife

    denimdestroyedmylife Senior member

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    so those must be the broken twill jims...

    those are nice! did you buy 'em raw?
     
  7. Lucky Strike

    Lucky Strike Senior member

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    They weren't raw - probably something like one-wash, or whatever the Nudie equiv. is. On second thought, I'm not sure they're Jims or Svens, as they were bought before I paid any much attention to "premium" denim. Please diagnose: [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  8. sbbbjm

    sbbbjm Senior member

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    those are jims - - - the legs look too skinny to be svens
     
  9. cultpop 0217

    cultpop 0217 Senior member

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    they are jims. you can tell by the outseam. the svens have a felled (usually selvedge) outseam. the broken twill looks nice.
     
  10. denimdestroyedmylife

    denimdestroyedmylife Senior member

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    yeah, they look good. did you guys hear tobe from mynudies passed away? [​IMG]
     
  11. watchman

    watchman Active Member

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    i believe the effect you're referring to is "vertical falling". It doesn't seem too pronounced in those jeans, but the stripey effect seems consistent with that. It is an effect of something called structure denim, where the weft is more raised i believe.
     
  12. Lucky Strike

    Lucky Strike Senior member

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    i believe the effect you're referring to is "vertical falling". It doesn't seem too pronounced in those jeans, but the stripey effect seems consistent with that. It is an effect of something called structure denim, where the weft is more raised i believe.
    Thanks all, for answering - pity this effect doesn't have a well-known term - I've never heard about "vertical falling" before, not that I'M knowledgeable about denim at all, though. Slim Jims they are. When I bought them, I just tried them on without asking their name, so to speak. Very happy with them, they've led to several other Nudie purchases. Another question - does any particular label have this stripey effect, just more pronounced?
     
  13. beefcake

    beefcake Senior member

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    Another question - does any particular label have this stripey effect, just more pronounced?

    yes! ETERNALs are made of said "structure denim" and has intense and beautiful vertical falling over time. check this out: Holy Grail Eternal 811s

    teaser: [​IMG]
     
  14. denimdestroyedmylife

    denimdestroyedmylife Senior member

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    Thanks all, for answering - pity this effect doesn't have a well-known term - I've never heard about "vertical falling" before, not that I'M knowledgeable about denim at all, though. Another question - does any particular label have this stripey effect, just more pronounced?
    vertical falling is sort of an engrish term. translations of a japanese denim fading report reads "color falling diary" so FALLING = fading thus, what we are really talking about is vertical fading i'm not sure that the stripiness of the jims is because it is structure denim like the 811's; maybe darker warp threads are interspersed with lighter warp threads so that when the jeans fade, the lighter threads get even lighter, while the darker threads retain more color, yielding the stripey effect. if you are looking for stripey jeans-----check out sugar cane hawaii's, in particular the sc40400n: [​IMG] if you are looking for structure denim, eternal 811s, as beefcake said, is a textbook example.
     
  15. ringring

    ringring Senior member

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    Yeah, 'Vertical Falling" is just a bad google translation for vertical fading [​IMG]

    This is indeed caused by the ringspun yarn. If you can picture all the vertical yarns in a loom (warp yarns - the indigo carrying threads) are all spun in a way that the yarn is uneven. So it means that on the surface of the fabric some of the vertical yarns will stick out more than others. These will be the yarns that get subjected to abrasion first.

    So what you will get is some vertical faded lines.

    The first pic, by the way, is the broken twill.

    And DDML's pic of the Hawaii's is an example of a mightypair of jeans.[​IMG]
     
  16. denimdestroyedmylife

    denimdestroyedmylife Senior member

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    if vertical fading occurs because of ringspun warp yarns, wouldn't all jeans fade in this way? why do eternal 811s fade vertically more dramatically than, say, APCs or RRDS?
     
  17. Arethusa

    Arethusa Senior member

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    Almost all jeans do fade this way. Any ringspun denim will, anyway, including cheaper stuff like 1969s and J Crew made from Kurabo. Hell, I've seen this on (cheap) Levi's. There's a silly obsession with using Japanese terms (most often by people who don't know the language) to describe these effects, as if they're somehow unique to Japanese jeans. APC and RRDS don't do this as dramatically assumably because APC and Nudie don't order their denim woven as slubby. In terms of fabric quality, it's about as meaningful as selvage.
     
  18. denimdestroyedmylife

    denimdestroyedmylife Senior member

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    i have never owned a pair of jeans that fade vertically the way my eternal 811s do. it is as if one vertical strand out of 10 fades before the rest. my RRDS were stripey, but in wider bands.

    our use of japanese terms comes from looking at japanese color falling diaries; i have not encountered many such sites from english-speaking countries, and when i have, they are very new and borrow the japanese terms. the way that japanese denim otakus obsess over jeans is unique and we've all benefitted from that.
     
  19. Arethusa

    Arethusa Senior member

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    Eternal denim is more aggressive with it than most, but the phenomenon is basically the same on a pair of 811s as it is on a pair of $40 Levi's.
     
  20. denimdestroyedmylife

    denimdestroyedmylife Senior member

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    are not $40 levis OE x OE, therefore would NOT fade vertically, if vertical fades are a ringspun phenomenon? i work with a gentleman that wears $40 levis, and the fade he has going on is not "vertical" but rather diffuse. in any case, you have helped me focus the question----what does Eternal do with 811s that causes more vertical fading than what occurs on Nudie RRDS (which are also ring/ring jeans)? EDIT: i just reread the "vertical falling" section of denim-gallery.heavy.jp the google translation is doing my head in, but it sounds like the two factors of vertical fading are: the depth of the dying and the variations of warp thread thickness. dying: warp threads that are twisted more tightly are not dyed as deeply to the core as loosely twisted threads, and the tighter twist yarns will fade faster because of this. when tightly twisted weft threads are interspersed with loosely woven threads, the tightly woven threads will fade and reveal their white core more quickly and will yield a stripey effect. thickness: as ringring stated, the variation in thread thickness will cause a vertical fade as well. the threads that are thicker will fade faster than the thinner threads because they are more prone to abrasion. i guess eternal uses a combination of tight/loose & thick/thin threads to make what we call "structure denim" am i close?
     

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