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Prince of wales check with pointed collar?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Ligament, Aug 25, 2004.

  1. Ligament

    Ligament Active Member

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    Hey all, I'm putting together a shirt at Jantzen, thinking of check material #17, a Checkers #17, Blue Prince of Wales, 2 Ply, 120's Italian Cotton (http://www.jantzentailor.com/checkers17.htm). Is it OK to get this shirt w/ a long pointed collar (Collar#6, ( 3X 1.5/8) Long Pointed), or is one obligated to wear an english spread with this material? Thanks.
     


  2. Ligament

    Ligament Active Member

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  3. Ligament

    Ligament Active Member

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  4. Nick M

    Nick M Senior member

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    I can personally only see a Prince-of-Wales plaid working with either a spread collar or a button-down.
     


  5. kidkim2

    kidkim2 Senior member

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    Ligament--

    Wish I had time to examine your specific fabric.  But I don't.  So here goes a somewhat oblique answer to your question.

    (a) Most of the time, collar selection should be a function of the size and shape of the face, not the pattern of the shirting.

    (b) While some shirtings just don't work with certain collar shapes and sizes (e.g., practically any coarse oxford cloth in just about anything but a button-down), nevertheless an acute creative eye can scope out contrarian opportunities that will really make an outfit sing.

    In other words, don't be afraid to swim against the tide.

    Sorry not to be of more help.

    Mike
     


  6. Mike C.

    Mike C. Senior member

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    It wouldn't work. Broader, bolder patterns call for a spread collar. Solids work best with a point collar.
     


  7. Phil

    Phil Senior member

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    while I certainly respect the opinions of those who have answered this post, I dont think there are any firm and fast rules on patterns of shirt going better with a certain kind of collar. As was mentioned, it should go with the shape of your face and neck more than anything. I wear special order Brooks Brothers oxfords with a spread collar and french cuffs all the time. In fact, I think it looks great, since its not a material you generally see without a button down collar. The french cuffs and collar get a bit frayed with time, and I get compliments on it all the time. I think the quirkiness of having a rougher textured shirt with more refined appointments like a spread collar or french cuffs is a nice thing to do. As for the comment about solids working only with point collars, thats odd to me. If anything, spread collars are inherently more fancy and formal than point collars. Therefore, a solid shirt looks perfectly normal with a spread. I own a T& A country plaid shirt that has a spread collar also, I wear it with ties all the time, and tweedy sportcoats. Im sure most would think that a button down collar would have been more appropriate, but I still like the way it looks. Im not saying I am some fashion plate or anything, I just dont like it when people think that there are firm rules regarding anything about dress. It should be about what you like, not what someone tells you to like. Id pick the collar that best suits your face go with it, no matter what the fabric.
     


  8. Phil

    Phil Senior member

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    just to add to Kidkims thread about swimming against the tide, think about these men:

    Fred Astaire - regularly wore BB button downs, french cuffs, with suits. Then actually pinned the collar down also (a bit anal retentive in my opinion, but it was certainly unique)

    Gary Cooper - regularly wore button down collars with double breasted suits, supposedly a no-no. seemed like he disliked collar stays also, his collars are flying all over the place.

    Price of Wales - broke every rule in the book, but always looked great doing it. This is a man who basically invented the practice of wearing suede shoes with suits. if there was a fashion forum around back then someone would have responded to his post about whether it was ok would have said they "were against the rules".

    Andre 3000 - seems like hes on ecxtasy while hes getting dressed. in the latest esquire I see a pic of him with french cuffs, with cufflinks, under a sweater.

    Yes, there are certain "rules" I suppose. Knowing what color shoes look good with a certain suit, knowing when the colors of a shirt and tie clearly clash and look out of place, or knowing about proportion and scale are important, its not the only thing that makes a man well dressed. The best dressed men are the ones who have a healthy skepticism for the rules, and zig when most others zag.

    ok, i feel better, no more ranting.
     


  9. jcusey

    jcusey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    A Prince of Wales check shirt would look just fine with a straight collar. In fact, I have a straight collar Prince of Wales check shirt. Don't over-analyze this.
     


  10. water

    water Senior member

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    I agree with Phil.

    I feel that "rules" and books that establish them (such as Flusser's) shred nearly every little bit of joy out of dressing.

    Style is an art. Rule books are like paint-by-numbers guides. Sure someone can paint using these guides but they never really create. There is no flair. The result is not alive.

    Some days I want to have my tie knot without a dimple. Some days I like to tie a sloppy looking four-in-hand. Some days I like to keep my cuffs unbuttoned. It is about having fun and creating a personal style. Sure there are certain "rules" such as colour choices, but, to me, worrying about rules begins to erode individuality.
     


  11. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Thank you, thank you, thank you. For a while, I felt like I was a voice in the wilderness, and definitely felt that way on the stuffier Ask Andy and Modern Man forums. I feel that a man who goes out on a limb and looks "like a clown", to quote ernest, is a better dressed man than one who follows all the rules and "looks like a drone" (to quote me.)
     


  12. Ligament

    Ligament Active Member

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    Gentlemen,

    Thanks for the responses. Straight collar w/ prince of wales it is then. I have a very large neck 18.5inches, and a large noggin w/ round face, so I favor point collars vs. spreads. Will give it a shot.

    Thanks. Ligament
     


  13. HitMan009

    HitMan009 Senior member

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    Absolutely Absoulutely, LA Guy always keeps the gospel.

    However, I believe that in order to break "the rules", one needs to know the rules. How can you push the envelope even there is no envelope to push. All the books that we hate/love have a place. That is the starting point. Art is the step right above science.

    Some people in this forum just have natural style while others learn it, either way.... A better man evolves out of it.

    On a side note, there is this quote: What one doesn't achieve through birth, one can achieve through effort.

    Can someone tell me who said that?

    -HitMan009
     


  14. faustian bargain

    faustian bargain Senior member

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    truer words were never spoken.
     


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