Prince Charles

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by shuman, Nov 14, 2004.

  1. shuman

    shuman Well-Known Member

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    On the Forbes slideshow linked elsewhere, Anderson & Sheppard are my favorites. After some research, most pictures of Prince Charles show him wearing DB suits, with spread collar shirts and four-in-hand knots, rather than the Windsor knot, which I would have expected.
     
  2. Nonk

    Nonk Senior member

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    A Windsor knot is the last is the last thing I would expect to see a member of the Royal Family wearing.

    Certain quarters in the UK believe that no gentleman would ever wear a Windsor knot (nor would I ) as it is named after and associated with a person who should be forgotten, because of the disgrace he brought on his family, the country and his failure in his duty.

    The Duke of Windsor may be highly regarded in the mens fashion sphere, but he is despised by many, especially those of my parents and grandparents generation.

    It is no secret that Prince Charles grandmother blamed the Duke of Windsor for the early death of her husband, who had to take on duties he was not raised for, and frankly was not as well suited for (even though he did an outstanding job in a very dignified fashion during hard times) because his brother wanted to have his fling with that awful Simpson woman.

    The Nazis courting of the Duke of Windsor was the final nail in the coffin of his reputation
     
  3. Giona Granata

    Giona Granata Senior member

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    Many bad things have been said about the Duke, many false, some true. But here I'm not discussing the virtues of the Duke, but the undoubted Elegance. And it is certain that the Duke didn't use the famous Windsor Knot for his ties. [​IMG]
     
  4. Giona Granata

    Giona Granata Senior member

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    This is obviously a four-in-hand.
     
  5. Phil

    Phil Senior member

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    It has been stated and discussed on this forum many times that the Duke liked to get his ties made with extra thick lining material, so that it formed a bigger knot when he tied it with a four in hand.
     
  6. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    Does anyone know who actually invented the windsor knot? Was it, as I believe I have read, the duke's brother?
     
  7. Kaga

    Kaga Senior member

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    If my memory serves me correctly, many British men observing the luxurious fatness of the Duke's tie knot attempted to obtain a similar thick knot. Not having the means or the presence of mind to ask Hawes and Curtis (or was it Turnbull and Asser) to make them extra-thick ties, they had to invent and make do with the frankly spivvy, overly symmetrical thick knot that has become known as the Windsor, named not for its progenitor, but rather for the weak imitations thereof. Why should Prince Charles wear a Windsor knot? Because it happens to be his last name? Should he also take Prince Albert, "in cans"? Should he have the eponymous penis piercing, too? Really, folk are so literal-minded.
     
  8. PHV

    PHV Senior member

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    (Manton @ 15 Nov. 2004, 05:37) Does anyone know who actually invented the windsor knot? Â Was it, as I believe I have read, the duke's brother?
    If my memory serves me correctly, many British men observing the luxurious fatness of the Duke's tie knot attempted to obtain a similar thick knot. Â Not having the means or the presence of mind to ask Hawes and Curtis (or was it Turnbull and Asser) to make them extra-thick ties, they had to invent and make do with the frankly spivvy, overly symmetrical thick knot that has become known as the Windsor, named not for its progenitor, but rather for the weak imitations thereof. Â Why should Prince Charles wear a Windsor knot? Because it happens to be his last name? Should he also take Prince Albert, "in cans"? Should he have the eponymous penis piercing, too? Really, folk are so literal-minded.
    I can understand not wearing the windsor knot for not liking it's aesthetic properties, but refusing to wear it based on the transgressions of a person you've never met is really quite foolish. I don't understand why people feel so maligned, as if they were part of the royal family themselves. Get over it. The royal family doesn't know who the hell you are and frankly couldn't care less about your opinions on the tie knot. Wear the tie as you like it.
     
  9. Kaga

    Kaga Senior member

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    (Kaga @ 15 Nov. 2004, 06:43)
    Does anyone know who actually invented the windsor knot? Â Was it, as I believe I have read, the duke's brother?
    If my memory serves me correctly, many British men observing the luxurious fatness of the Duke's tie knot attempted to obtain a similar thick knot. Â Not having the means or the presence of mind to ask Hawes and Curtis (or was it Turnbull and Asser) to make them extra-thick ties, they had to invent and make do with the frankly spivvy, overly symmetrical thick knot that has become known as the Windsor, named not for its progenitor, but rather for the weak imitations thereof. Â Why should Prince Charles wear a Windsor knot? Because it happens to be his last name? Should he also take Prince Albert, "in cans"? Should he have the eponymous penis piercing, too? Really, folk are so literal-minded.
    I can understand not wearing the windsor knot for not liking it's aesthetic properties, but refusing to wear it based on the transgressions of a person you've never met is really quite foolish. I don't understand why people feel so maligned, as if they were part of the royal family themselves. Get over it. The royal family doesn't know who the hell you are and frankly couldn't care less about your opinions on the tie knot. Wear the tie as you like it.
    I think you quoted the wrong post there, friend. I'm not sticking up for the royal family or saying that one shouldn't wear the Windsor because of the Duke's peccadilloes. I don't like it aesthetically (and because of From Russia With Love); I have some thick woven ties for which I do not want fist-sized knots; I like the asymmetry of a four-in-hand. Anyway, to Mr Original Poster, I believe Prince Charles is now using Gieves and Hawkes as his principal tailors. Anderson has lost the warrant, FWIW.
     
  10. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    Do you know why?
     
  11. Nonk

    Nonk Senior member

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    Examining the "logic" of you post, if the royal family do not know who I am, then unless you are in some way related to them it is a fair assumption that they do not know you either.

    So my question is then how are you able to say what they do and do not care about, anymore than I can?

    As for not liking it because of the transgressions of a person I have never met, there are numerous examples of such adjustments in people's attitudes throughout history. The once popular name of Adolf has fallen into virtual disuse as a prime and easy to understand, if extreme example.

    Can I presume you are from one of the colonies? Perhaps that is why you fail to understand the importance in our society of the abdication crisis.
     
  12. PHV

    PHV Senior member

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    I can understand not wearing the windsor knot for not liking it's aesthetic properties, but refusing to wear it based on the transgressions of a person you've never met is really quite foolish. I don't understand why people feel so maligned, as if they were part of the royal family themselves. Get over it. The royal family doesn't know who the hell you are and frankly couldn't care less about your opinions on the tie knot. Wear the tie as you like it.
    Examining the "logic" of you post, if the royal family do not know who I am, then unless you are in some way related to them it is a fair assumption that they do not know you either. So my question is then how are you able to say what they do and do not care about, anymore than I can? As for not liking it because of the transgressions of a person I have never met, there are numerous examples of such adjustments in people's attitudes throughout history. The once popular name of Adolf has fallen into virtual disuse as a prime and easy to understand, if extreme example. Can I presume you are from one of the colonies? Perhaps that is why you fail to understand the importance in our society of the abdication crisis.
    I once had a fantastic professor who said something to the effect of the argument at hand has really gone downhill once someone brings up Hitler. I'm sorry, but someone ruffling the feathers of the status quo cannot be equated to the genocide of millions. To me it's the same as the people who read tabloids and gossip about the lives of celebrities and people they wish they could be. The whole hating on Ms. Simpson is just one of those typical cop outs like "Sean Connery was the best James Bond". Something everyone says because it is something everyone says. I also think the whole abdication spiel is just part of another thread of English pseudo elitism whereby conservatives so predictably voice their disgust and abhorrence over something that happened long before they were aware of social issues. The whole idea is somehow fashionable in the "old money" category of society and people think that they'll be lumped together with that. Who cares. If in a constitutional monarchy someone wishes to abdicate his position, all the better since their heart wouldn't be in it anyways. To compound the prudism of it all, we as the public know very little about what happened, despite how much we think we know. I'm not accusing anyone here of these things, but from my prep school experiences with many a brit socialite and their parents, the topic always gets on my nerves. I also think most windsor knots look too big.
     
  13. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Nonk,

    I'm was born in one of the colonies, and my parents in another. And while I quite like the queen, as do a large number of my fellow Canadians, I find that majority of Brits I know (and I know plenty. One of my future groomsmen is a Londoner, my brother studies at Oxford, and my father read at Cambridge, so I'm at Harvard, so I'm surrounded by expats and have met many English in England besides) are by and large either indifferent or quite negative towards the monarchy, regardless of education, social class, or wealth (although the virulent anti-monarchist tended to be the more highly educated of the bunch.) Maybe the people I met are in the minority?
     
  14. Nonk

    Nonk Senior member

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    PHV. Perhaps your professor also stated that an argument over whether a nation should feel let down, angry, disappointed and resentful when its head of state, who lives a life of the most fabulous privilege as payment for fulfilling certain duties, fails to carry out those duties because of his intention to commit an act seen widely at the time as unacceptable, can also delve into the realms of the ridiculous by comparing it to which actor happens to be best in a certain role.

    Fo the record, I am actually a Timothy Dalton fan.

    I would hardly think they are in either sufficient numbers, or of a wide enough background to be fully representative, no.


    Has anyone got anything to add to this discussion other than to try to lecture me on the rights and wrongs of the answer I gave as to the reason why it is not surprising Prince Charles does not wear a Windsor tie? Regardless of your experience with British people, your relatives heritage, your education or comments of your friends and acquaintances, it remains the answer to the question.

    If this forum is so adverse to adopting the style peccadilloes of others as standard, simply because they feel the reasons are inadequate, then why does there seem to be so much support for things like working cuff buttons, or leaving buttons undone on certain garments, all of which have origins in the personal preferences of individuals, for reasons that were  individually specific and have little or no practical use or relevance today?

    I did not make any such comparison, and I do not agree that all David Windsor did was "ruffling the feathers of the status quo"

    To dismiss the seriousness of his actions in British society at that time shows little undertsanding of the political system that we enjoyed and still enjoy, and feel, in comparison with what others have contrived, is far superior. He placed that system in jeopardy.
     
  15. PHV

    PHV Senior member

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    Maybe the people I met are in the minority?
    I would hardly think they are in either sufficient numbers, or of a wide enough background to be fully representative, no. Has anyone got anything to add to this discussion other than to try to lecture me on the rights and wrongs of the answer I gave as to the reason why it is not surprising Prince Charles does not wear a Windsor tie? Regardless of your experience with British people, your relatives heritage, your education or comments of your friends and acquaintances, it remains the answer to the question. If this forum is so adverse to adopting the style peccadilloes of others as standard, simply because they feel the reasons are inadequate, then why does there seem to be so much support for things like working cuff buttons, or leaving buttons undone on certain garments, all of which have origins in the personal preferences of individuals, for reasons that were  individually specific and have little or no practical use or relevance today?
    I did not make any such comparison, and I do not agree that all David Windsor did was "ruffling the feathers of the status quo" To dismiss the seriousness of his actions in British society at that time shows little undertsanding of the political system that we enjoyed and still enjoy, and feel, in comparison with what others have contrived, is far superior. He placed that system in jeopardy.
    Be all that as it may, I still find it rediculous that many of the people belly aching about the abdication were not even alive when it happened, and now harbor an irrational vindictiveness towards a man who really hasn't affected their life so much. All you have to do is listen to your very own Winston Churchill, who stated that the prime fallacy of democracy is voters. Do you really think that the average joe gives a toss about some cake eater giving up a fancy hat to go bone an uppity socialite? Making it all out to be this big sad event which has left irreperable scars on the face of Britain is really just a pile of dramatic hyperbole. I maintain that in my experience, it is only a certain type of person who cares at all about it. The monarchy has itself done far enough to degrade its esteem in the eyes of the public, so blaming it on him really doesn't make much sense. I'd be part of the monarchist league of Canada if its leader wasn't a total flake. I think there is definately something positive about the constitutional monarchy. I'm aware that at the time it was a very unfortunate and regrettable course of action, but I hardly believe it has adversely affected anyone today. The greatest tragedy is the excesses of the western world and our exploitation of the masses to maintain our tremendous wealth, not a spoiled brat giving up the crown to be with his love.
     

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