Potential custom SC disaster (New pics!)

[Threadbearer]

I'm in the process of having my first custom SC created by a local tailor who came highly recommended. He had never heard the term "open quarters" before, but I showed him many pictures from SF and felt certain that he understood what I wanted before he even ordered the fabric.

About six weeks ago, the piece looked like this:

I reiterated at that time that I wanted the bottom of the jacket to begin opening from below the first button but gradually enough so that my belt buckle would still be concealed by the jacket's overlapping flaps. I even printed out copies of the above pic and we drew lines on them to determine the shape of the bottom flaps of the jacket.

Since them, the jacket has been completed except for that last detail, and the tailor has been bringing me the jacket every few days to tweak that one thing. But each time he brings the jacket back I either see no difference at all, or the situation has worsened. Last week, for instance, was the first time he seemed to get the point that I did not want the jacket constructed so that the bottom button could be buttoned. He seemed very relieved and told me that this would give him the freedom to open the jacket flaps more widely than he'd been able to do previously.

Unfortunately, when he brought the jacket to me today, the quarters opened up right under the first button and then closed again several inches farther down. In other words, my belt buckle and even some of my shirt were both clearly visible under the top button, but then the flaps overlapped again over my crotch. It kind of gave the appearance that my fly was open, but several inches above where it should have been.

That's not a good look.

Bottom line: I'm suspicious that the tailor is too far along in the process to cut the quarters the way I want them and that he's afraid to tell me so. Does this sound like it's still fixable at this point, or is it a do-over? And if it's a do-over, what would be the honorable way to handle it? I've already paid half the agreed amount for the jacket. Should I expect him to start from scratch without renegotiating the price? Would it be reasonable of me to offer to pay the cost of new material but not more for labor? Are there better options?

 

[lee_44106]

If I recall correctly, the term "quarters" is a Styleforum invention, that's why your tailor may not know what you mean.

That said, it's no excuse if you have repeatedly drawn pictures and such. Does he speak English?


Opening up the "quarteres" is no big deal. I've had RTW jackets opened up; it involves cutting away fabric and reshaping the front.

 

[Despos]

I had never heard the term "open quarters" until reading it here on style forum so it doesn't mean anything that he was unaware of the term. Tailors don't use the term.

If I read you correctly there have been adjustments made since this picture taken 6 weeks ago. Do you have a current picture with the changes he made?
The fronts can still be opened but the facing will need to be replaced from the button down to the hem. No need to start over making new fronts to get open quarters.
Make sure he doesn't or hasn't cut the front buttonholes.

Does this tailor do his own work or is it done elsewhere?

 

[NewYorkIslander]

It can throw off balance, and make the quarters look odd. Also has an impact on where the button would be. It definitely can be done. Perhaps have him finish it, then take it to another tailor to "fix". I see a lot of guys at Franks doing just that.

 

[greger]

"Open Quarters", have been around that phase because of tailors since about 1960. There are not as many tailors as there used to be so the divisions of groups of tailors is pretty much gone, nowadays. And then there is "tailor talk" (different groups of that) and "customer talk" (different groups of this)- these are dialects, so to say, that tailors should know. "Open Quarters" may have been part of the customer dialect.

Some tailors add about an inch to the front of the coat which leaves room for the customer and tailor at the fitting to design the front edge as the customer wishes. Because, it can be easily pinned to the shape the customer wants while on the customer. That extra inch also gives room for fitting, by using some of it if one needs to for a better fit. There is no facing attached until the front edge is determined. Those who skip this step lose some creative opportunity, and are making more of what I call a factory front. If the customer is not part of the creation of the garment, then how is it custom? Bespoke means custom. If somebody else decides, then how can it be custom? If a tailor does not know how to make what you want or how to go about figuring out how to make what the customer wants it is best for the customer finds somebody who can. After all, no tailor knows everything.

So, now you have it. Instead of guessing pin fit the edges style you want so both you and him see while the coat is on your body. This method has been done for centuries. A pinned fit give precision that a guess fit never can.

 

[Threadbearer]

Originally Posted by lee_44106

Does he speak English?
Yep. Born and raised in the USA. But that has not prevented us from having several communication failures along the way. Until now, though, they have not been serious.

Originally Posted by Despos

I had never heard the term "open quarters" until reading it here on style forum so it doesn't mean anything that he was unaware of the term. Tailors don't use the term.
What term should I use with my tailor that he might better understand? How would one tailor describe this idea to another?

Originally Posted by Despos

Do you have a current picture with the changes he made?
I'm afraid I don't. If the jacket is still not right when he brings is back on Tuesday, I'll snap some photos and post them here.

Originally Posted by Despos

Make sure he doesn't or hasn't cut the front buttonholes.
Uh-oh! He has already cut the top button hole and placed that button. He hasn't yet done the bottom one, though. Is it still salvageable?

Originally Posted by Despos

Does this tailor do his own work or is it done elsewhere?
He told me that he's doing all the work himself.

Originally Posted by NewYorkRanger

Perhaps have him finish it, then take it to another tailor to "fix". I see a lot of guys at Franks doing just that.
Funny you should mention that, Rob, as the idea struck me as well. Ironically, my alterations tailor, who does excellent work, is similarly reluctant to open the quarters of jackets. He's done so in the past, but he's very timid about it and I haven't thought the results worth repeating.

Originally Posted by greger

Instead of guessing pin fit the edges style you want so both you and him see while the coat is on your body.
We did that. Several times. We have pinned it, chalked it, and drawn on printed photos of it. For that reason, and also because he's been in business a very long time, I simply cannot understand why he has failed to comprehend my meaning. And that's why I've become suspicious that he did something wrong in the cutting phase and just doesn't want to admit it.

 

[Despos]

Did he make the jacket longer since your first fitting?

I don't get why it so hard to make the fronts shaped the way you want it.

Perhaps you could get your picture "foofed" to the shape you want and take the picture to your tailor.

I don't know of any born/raised in US tailors in Houston. Sure he is not doing MTM for you?

 

[greger]

Originally Posted by Threadbearer

We did that. Several times. We have pinned it, chalked it, and drawn on printed photos of it. For that reason, and also because he's been in business a very long time, I simply cannot understand why he has failed to comprehend my meaning. And that's why I've become suspicious that he did something wrong in the cutting phase and just doesn't want to admit it.

Reminds me of high school graphic arts class. The teacher ask, "What do you do if you print and bind $3,000,000 worth copies of a book and discover that some pages are in the wrong places?" His answer is to throw them out and never let customers know about it. Reputation does matter. Don't know what else to say.

 

[Threadbearer]

Originally Posted by Despos

Did he make the jacket longer since your first fitting?
No. (Was that a serious question?

)

Originally Posted by Despos

Perhaps you could get your picture "foofed" to the shape you want and take the picture to your tailor.
That's a great idea, D. I'll get some new pics of the SC when he brings it over tomorrow.

Originally Posted by Despos

I don't know of any born/raised in US tailors in Houston. Sure he is not doing MTM for you?
I'm in the DC/Baltimore area, not Houston. But no, I can't say for sure that he's not doing MTM. The process, as he described it, sounded like bespoke to me, but he is not a great communicator. Neither, apparently, am I.

Which brings me back to an earlier question: What should I be saying to him instead of "open quarters" to get this idea across?

 

[tazmaniac]

Maybe something like "cutaway" fronts?

 

[mlongano]

Take a picture in the next time...one picture is worth a thousand words!

 

[Despos]

Asked about the length because of the long spacing from the bottom of the patch pockets to the hem. Thought he may have put the pockets on and then lengthened the jacket. Most patch pockets are
1 1/4" to 2" from the hem, these seem higher than that.

Sorry, not sure where the idea that you were in Houston came from.

 

[hymo]

Patch pockets way high. If the top of the pockets were positioned level with the 2nd button they would be perfect.

 

[Maccimus]

Originally Posted by Threadbearer

Unfortunately, when he brought the jacket to me today, the quarters opened up right under the first button and then closed again several inches farther down.

Sorry but I don't get this part...Sounds quite weird. You have picture of it?

Based on what you said, I am sure the tailor is outsourcing the work to somewhere very far away from your city.

 

[gladhands]

Originally Posted by Threadbearer

Which brings me back to an earlier question: What should I be saying to him instead of "open quarters" to get this idea across?

try "skirt flare"