Portugese and Spanish shoes

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Donald, Feb 27, 2007.

  1. Jarandas

    Jarandas Senior member

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    That must be one of the greatest jokes ever. If I remember anything useful my mother told me was that Spanish shoes were crappier than Portuguese shoes. Granted that was many years ago and she was biased but I have not seen any sight of any good Spanish shoes since.

    It is true that sadly Portuguese shoes have not gotten better.

    But that is what happens when your market is "a" Europe with high taxes on non-European goods and your strength is a very low paid worker (in western Euro terms) , and then shit happens -like WTO agreements with China etc.

    In any case if you can, choose Portuguese shoes as they are at least made in a country with much nicer people that Spain, where the noise levels are non-compatible with civilised conversation- and I don't mean in the shoe factories

    PS-Never, ever buy shoes by Zara and or Massimo Dutti (Zara's "black label", which of course has an Italian name)


    That´s a great new criterion... buying things based on stereotypes...

    In that case I won´t buy things made in Germany, because most of them are squareheaded Hitler nostalgics, or in Sweden, a country of closeted racists, or Japan, or the U.K....

    P.S: The fact that you mention Zara or Massimo Dutti in this thread makes me think that you buy your suits at H&M.
     


  2. economiayocio

    economiayocio Senior member

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    That must be one of the greatest jokes ever. If I remember anything useful my mother told me was that Spanish shoes were crappier than Portuguese shoes. Granted that was many years ago and she was biased but I have not seen any sight of any good Spanish shoes since.

    It is true that sadly Portuguese shoes have not gotten better.

    But that is what happens when your market is "a" Europe with high taxes on non-European goods and your strength is a very low paid worker (in western Euro terms) , and then shit happens -like WTO agreements with China etc.

    In any case if you can, choose Portuguese shoes as they are at least made in a country with much nicer people that Spain, where the noise levels are non-compatible with civilised conversation- and I don't mean in the shoe factories

    PS-Never, ever buy shoes by Zara and or Massimo Dutti (Zara's "black label", which of course has an Italian name)


    Your words are tremendously rude and not very accurate. Do you really think that a country of 45 Million people really "speaks very loud"? That is really ignorant, as many of the things you say.

    Camin's shoes are all made in Mallorca, which is Spain (in case you don't know where it is).

    I don't know where you come from. But you can generalize about every country with rude things, but that does not make it true. Maybe you can tell me where you come from and we can start over.

    Zara ande MD are cheap clothes. You get what you pay for. I guess that in your country you also have brands that deliver cheap products with cheap quality, or you only make things with gold and cordovan? By the way, the companys are very succesful in what they do and have created a way of doing things that many people is buying.
     


  3. economiayocio

    economiayocio Senior member

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    I can only tell from personal experience, and my experience (after more than 16 years in Spain, and quite a few years in other countries) is that here, a lot of people drive after drinking quite a lot. When I came here in the early 90s, people didn't seem to care at all about this issue. I fully agree that is has improved lately (actually, under the new government...). Still, I see a lot of business people (and other people) taking the car after a lunch or dinner starting with a beer, followed by wine, followed by a whisky with coke (coca-cola). And recently the ex prime minister Aznar (or Anzar, as Bush called him) said that nobody should tell him not to drink wine before driving...

    In Madrid, whether streets are clean or not, depends a lot on where in Madrid you are. Some areas are kept after quite well. I live right in the center and when I walk out on a Saturday or Sunday morning, it looks like a battlefield, but then they come and clean up quite urgently and it looks nice again.

    I cannot agree that the problems are to be blamed on the current government. The problems that we are facing today are to a large extent due to the erroneous politics (including real estate) of the former government. Politics that were not changed by the new government. So both are to be blamed, IMO.

    I agree that some Spanish companies are doing great, and I am glad for that. And I think that there are many good things about the country. Otherwise I would not have stayed here.

    But this is maybe not the right forum to discuss these things. And sorry if I upset you when saying what I said about drunk driving. But it was really one of these things that caught my attention when I arrived here (coming from a country where drunk driving was taken VERY seriously). But I agree that it is much better nowadays. I am also happy that people don't smoke in the office any longer. Another law by this new government that I actualy liked...

    By the way, the prime minister is Zapatero, which means "shoemaker"...


    EPA, I won't discuss here about politics, it does not worth it. But after rulling the country for 6 years, trying to blame the previous administration that got the unemployment to a minimum and made us very rich is something you just can't do in my opinion. But I respect your view.

    Regarding alcohol, in the last survey made by the UE, Spain was high in terms of alcohol abuse: but equal than the UK, and below Germany, Ireland and Austria to name some. It is true that the law was tolerant, but now it is reversing. Each country has it's problems and we try to solve them. Like crime in america or unemployment in Spain. But now I think that we have gotten much better with these issue. What I meant is that it was not fair that, if you have to say something about Spain, just say that it is dirty and people drink. With all the culture and good things we have... About Aznar, he should not have said that, but the words were taken out of context. He meant that this government was forbiding everything, and that was not good. I don't think he did right in any case.

    I hope you really liked here and you got some good things to say... Nowadays, many countries that had mopre problems than us with the banks, having to rescue them all, like to speak very bad about us, and I think they should look at themselves before talking, at least in economic terms. We did in fact had and have a bubble in Real Estate. But the prices dropped here much less than inb the UK and the US for example. Our deficit numbers and debt are still much lower than many of them... Our really problem is unemployment, but I think there is a lot of "hidden economy" because if we really had some much, people would be fighting in the streets, and that is very far from how we are... Just a little depresed.

    Regards.
     


  4. epa

    epa Senior member

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    That must be one of the greatest jokes ever. If I remember anything useful my mother told me was that Spanish shoes were crappier than Portuguese shoes. Granted that was many years ago and she was biased but I have not seen any sight of any good Spanish shoes since.

    It is true that sadly Portuguese shoes have not gotten better.

    But that is what happens when your market is "a" Europe with high taxes on non-European goods and your strength is a very low paid worker (in western Euro terms) , and then shit happens -like WTO agreements with China etc.

    In any case if you can, choose Portuguese shoes as they are at least made in a country with much nicer people that Spain, where the noise levels are non-compatible with civilised conversation- and I don’t mean in the shoe factories

    PS-Never, ever buy shoes by Zara and or Massimo Dutti (Zara’s “black label”, which of course has an Italian name)


    One of the silliest comments I ever read in this forum.

    There is a lot of variety in Spanish shoes, some are crap, of course, but even Italian and U.K. produce shoes in the crap range. I am not Spanish and the reason for why I buy Carmina is that I find them to be good shoes at a reasonable price.

    Are Portuguese people nicer than Spanish people? Sounds like you had a hard time in Spain on vacation, maybe? Maybe you told a Spanish waiter that his shoes were crap 'cause your mother said so?

    Yes, many places in Spain are too noisy, IMO. One of the drawbacks wit this country. However, there are pros and cons with all countries, and I chose to live hear because the pros outweighs the cons (when it comes to my lifestyle). And I cannot really see the relation between the noise level and the quality of Carmina shoes. One of the Madrid Carmina stores is on Gran VÃa which may be a bit noisy, but there is another one on Serrano which, albeit noisy, is quite nice after the recent reform, and my favourite one is on Claudio Coello which is a fairly silent street (I have no problem keeping a civilised conversation there). Give it a try. Don't trust your mom on shoes.

    Massimo Dutti and Zara are not bad stuff if you consider the price range. And they have proven to be very successful. I don't buy at Zara but neither do I buy at H&M.

    By the way, Massimo Dutti is not Zara's "black label". Zara and Massimo Dutti are different brands, sold in different shops. They both belong to INDITEX. But this does not make one the "black label" of the other. I believe that Luis Vuitton and Moet&Chandon both belong to LVMH, but you do not say that Moet&Chandon is the black label of Luis Vuitton...
     


  5. epa

    epa Senior member

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    EPA, I won't discuss here about politics, it does not worth it. But after rulling the country for 6 years, trying to blame the previous administration that got the unemployment to a minimum and made us very rich is something you just can't do in my opinion. But I respect your view.

    IMO, the former government got unemployment down by boosting real estate. And the bubble exploded with the new government. But, as you say, maybe this is not the place for politics.

    What I meant is that it was not fair that, if you have to say something about Spain, just say that it is dirty and people drink. With all the culture and good things we have...

    Sorry, I agree with what you say. I didn't want to create a stereotype that Spain is only dirty streets and drunk driving. There are very many good things and I am very happy here. And, as I said, there is much less drunk driving nowadays than it used to be. It just caught my attention when arriving here in the early 90s.

    I hope you really liked here and you got some good things to say...

    Yes, I like it very much.


    We did in fact had and have a bubble in Real Estate. But the prices dropped here much less than inb the UK and the US for example. Our deficit numbers and debt are still much lower than many of them... Our really problem is unemployment, but I think there is a lot of "hidden economy" because if we really had some much, people would be fighting in the streets, and that is very far from how we are... Just a little depresed.

    One of the problems is that the prices didn't drop more. They are still too high, IMO. It is difficult for people to afford a place to live. But I do not want to discuss this here. Let's keep the discussion to shoes.

    Yes, Carmina is maybe the best.
     


  6. perk252

    perk252 Active Member

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    Having lived in Madrid for a few years not so very long ago, I'd like to think my Spanish is good enough to do some googling and find prices etc. on some of these brands you guys are talking about. I'm not having much luck, however, even on google.es. Can anyone direct me to some online pages where if not for purchasing we can at least see some prices and details? Even going to Ebay Spain doesn't turn up very much.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated! Maybe I should have paid more attention to shoes when I lived there, but I was young and ignorant...
     


  7. epa

    epa Senior member

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    Sorry, I don't do online shopping. The only info I can give you is the link to the Carmina website which I posted above and which, in fact, is quite useless. No price information, I fear, and not very good photos of the products.
    In any case, Carmina calf leather shoes are in the EUR 300 range, maybe a bit more.
     


  8. perk252

    perk252 Active Member

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    Many thanks for the info, epa. At least I know it's not due to poor Googling on my part! You're right about the Carmina website not being up to much. It's not much of a step up from looking in the shop window from a passing bus.
    I'm glad to hear the service in the shop is good, though. I try to get back to Madrid once a year or so, and next time I'll make a point of stopping by and checking them out. I always associated Gran Via with the Museo del Jamon and cinemas, not decent clothes shopping. Live and learn!
     


  9. BicesterRules

    BicesterRules Active Member

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    Hello to all. I am also from Spain, and I think that you can't compare spanish shoes with Portuguese shoes. Here there are known brands with years of tradition, and now I am seeing many portuguese shoes being sold door by door fror €100. That can't be good.
    .


    To those accusing me of generalising remember I was answering to a thread where the comment above was posted. If that is not a blanket generalisation I don't know what is

    Regarding Massimo Dutti being cheap, I just know that a RTW dress shirt is sold around europe at about 70 euros or more. Is that cheap? I

    Shoes are also expensive- I don't really know the avg price since last time I bought a pair about 4 years ago it fell apart in months, however I can assure you that 160-200 euros will not be far off the mark. Again is that cheap?

    So no Massimo Dutti is not cheap.

    About the comment about being the black label this can only come from someone that lacks the mental agility to get the drift. Obviously it does not say black label but INDITEX does not sell Champaign either. Inditex (whose founder and original funding money by the way has always been suspected to be associated with the Galician contraband mafia) has different brands targeting customer that never hear the name inditex. They have Pull & Bear for high school kids, Zara for university kids (in ZARA well established countries- however in virgin markets they go upscale) and massimo dutti for the minority of spanish youth that finishing university are happy enough to get a white collar job.

    About me buying my suits in H&M I must confess that I am blessed in that I have been able to live my last 6-7 years with two quality suits which I wear about 10 days a year (this includes funerals) because I am fortunate in that i do not need to wear a uniform to work. That stopped after private high school and was never again needed as I grew up and got jobs where I was treated like a grown up, i.e school uniforms not needed anymore-which allows me to wear a wider range of clothing. So, no I do not hold any H&M items including suits.

    Finally, it should have been obvious to everyone other than the more obtuse of you that my sweeping comments on spanish people vis a vis their shoe quality etc were to be taken lightly. Lack of irony is a common affliction in un stylish people, who should not frequent SF


    So calm down and get a grip


    About the comment about being the black label this can only come from someone that lacks the mental agility to get the drift. Obviously it does not say black label but INDITEX does not sell champaign either. Inditex (whose founder and original funding money by the way has always been suspected to be associated with the Galiacian contraband mafia) has different brands targeting customer that never hear the name inditex. They have Pull & Bear for high school kids, Zara for university kids (in ZARA well established countries- however in virgin markets they go upscale) and massimo dutti for the minority of spanish youth that finishing university are happy enough to get a white collar job.

    About me buying my suits in H&M I must confess that I am blessed in that I have been able to live my last 6-7 years with two quality suits which I wear about 10 days a year (this includes funerals) because I am fortunate in that i do not need to wear a uniform to work. That stopped after private high school and was never again needed as I grew up and got jobs where I was treated like a grown up, i.e school uniforms not needed anymore-shich allows me to wear a wider range of clothing. So, no I do not hold any H&M items including suits.

    Finally, it should have been obvious to everyone other than the more obtuse of you that my sweaping comments on spanish people vis a vis their shoe quality etc were to be taken lightly. Lack of irony is a common affliction in un stylixh people, who should not frequent SF


    So calm down and get a grip

    as Finally it is obbvious that i was oking when i made



    to earn good money
     


  10. BicesterRules

    BicesterRules Active Member

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    oh my! this post really did not go well at all.

    Lack of a decent spell checker in this forum leads to cut and paste issues like this

    In any case it is probably useful it repeated my points when talking with some of you
     


  11. SpallaCamiccia

    SpallaCamiccia Senior member

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    I have worked in the spaniard shoe world as my grandpa owned a big factory.

    All the spaniard shoes but Carmina or Magnanni ( that are well done copies of italian shoes ) are nothing but crap done shoes, example Lotusse, Thermans, ( copied dr marthens, even ther mans = mar tens )

    All the owners, noveau riches with bad fitting zegna suits Porsche Cayenne or Mercedes S500 asking always for the most expensive wine .

    They hate me for my class and I hate them for their unclass . Period.
     


  12. SpallaCamiccia

    SpallaCamiccia Senior member

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    I like Loewe shoes, in my opinion they have the best quality in leather goods.

    http://www.loewe.com/


    Those are pretty good, but not spaniard. All are Italy made.
    for 400 euros are not bad.
     


  13. Jarandas

    Jarandas Senior member

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    BicesterRules
    Member

    Finally, it should have been obvious to everyone other than the more obtuse of you that my sweaping comments on spanish people vis a vis their shoe quality etc were to be taken lightly. Lack of irony is a common affliction in un stylixh people, who should not frequent SF
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Definition of irony:

    Irony, language device, either in spoken or written form in which the real meaning is concealed or contradicted by the literal meanings of the words (verbal irony) or in a situation in which there is an incongruity between what is expected and what occurs (dramatic irony).


    Verbal irony arises from a sophisticated or resigned awareness of contrast between what is and what ought to be and expresses a controlled pathos without sentimentality. It is a form of indirection that avoids overt praise or censure, as in the casual irony of the statement “That was a smart thing to do!”

    I do not think you scowling comments about Spain were smart enough to be considered ironic, try harder next time...
     


  14. economiayocio

    economiayocio Senior member

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    IMO, the former government got unemployment down by boosting real estate. And the bubble exploded with the new government. But, as you say, maybe this is not the place for politics.



    Sorry, I agree with what you say. I didn't want to create a stereotype that Spain is only dirty streets and drunk driving. There are very many good things and I am very happy here. And, as I said, there is much less drunk driving nowadays than it used to be. It just caught my attention when arriving here in the early 90s.



    Yes, I like it very much.




    One of the problems is that the prices didn't drop more. They are still too high, IMO. It is difficult for people to afford a place to live. But I do not want to discuss this here. Let's keep the discussion to shoes.

    Yes, Carmina is maybe the best.


    Thanks for all and regards.
     


  15. economiayocio

    economiayocio Senior member

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    oh my! this post really did not go well at all.

    Lack of a decent spell checker in this forum leads to cut and paste issues like this

    In any case it is probably useful it repeated my points when talking with some of you


    Don' blame others for your weaknesses. If you need the spell checker, it is your problem, not the forum problem.

    And I think that you are a quite rude person. It would be good to learn some manners.
     


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