Pls explain European universities to me

[ninetofivereject]

another solution is to dig into your ancestry,if your parents or even grandparents had euro citizenship then you are entirlet to it as well.case in ponit my friend got a polish passport (grandmother was polish) and attended a very prestigous school of medicine in Krakow,FOR FREE.
(copernicus went there,its one of the first universities in the world (one of five i think) founded in 1364 i think,yup thats right almost 800 years old.
the courses are taught in english and have students from all over the world.
then he took the exams in the states to get licenced and now is working in some hospital in NY.
http://www.medschool.cm-uj.krakow.pl/

 

[ysc]

Originally Posted by Tangfastic

I think in Scotland there are still no University fees and undergraduate courses tend to be 4 years rather than 3.

there sort of are - englanders studying in Scotland have to pay (although if you fill in a bunch of forms the Scottish government will repay your forth year so as to not disco rage applications from England. Scots do have to pay some sort of tricky leaving tax or something that was being rangled with when I left university last year but it is not a great deal.

Originally Posted by JustinW

Sounds like the American system in Scotland? Where you have to take a heap of little courses in everything from physical education to civics and history outside of your major.

Scottish university is less specialised than the UK system but not like the US where you have to do sports etc. and it slightly depends on what you are studying - linguists may only do languages and scientists only science but slightly less specialised in the first two years than in England. This is because Scots don't specialise as much in the final years of school and some even leave a year earlier, and younger, than English students. I knew a few Scottish guys who were not eighteen until the end of their first year.

Uk universities are going to have a bit of a funding crisis this year, and some aspects of them are in dire need of a shake-up anyway so it will be interesting to see what happens to how we pay, but I do think it is a better system than the US one. So many Americans I know could not go to their first choice because of financial considerations, or were left with horrendous debt afterwards.

 

[M.D.]

In Belgium you pay € 500 a year. If your parents' income fall below a certain limit, you can apply for a financial scholarship. Than you pay less (I believe 120€, not sure) and you can apply for housing in a subsidised dorm. On the other hand, because of the size of our country and the relative density of good universities, lots of students live at home, eliminating the housing cost. Conclusion, college = cheap.
However, after Denmark and Sweden, the tax pressure in our country (=44%) is the highest of all OECD members.

 

[audiophilia]

Don't even get into the degree levels.

US

Honours Degree
Degree

UK

1st
2/1
2/2
3
Pass

The last one, you may as well pack up and head home. Lots of employers ask for your level, at least it used to be that way.

 

[ysc]

Originally Posted by audiophilia

UK 1st 2/1 2/2 3 Pass The last one, you may as well pack up and head home. Lots of employers ask for your level, at least it used to be that way.
Its worse than that now, and many employers want your whole transcript as well as your final grade. A fact I would have prefered to know before I slacked off the first three years. 1st - great and awesome obviously 2.1 - gentleman's degree - you worked but did other things too, needed to get into any respectable graduate employment scheme. 2.2 - used to be fine, now you can't get onto any decent graduate employment scheme, although some second rate ones will take you and you can get into an ok masters. 3rd - you better have enjoyed the social side, because academically you just wasted 3/4 years. Pass - fail.

 

[JustinW]

Originally Posted by youngscientist

2.1 - gentleman's degree - you worked but did other things too, needed to get into any respectable graduate employment scheme.

This was pretty-much me (though I applied myself a little more in post-grad studies).

I recently had an American comment on my upper 2nd degree on the wall - she said something to the effect of: awww, so you only got a Second Class Degree? Oh well, don't feel too bad - I struggled to get through community college.

 

[CDFS]

In the Netherlands tuition for people under (over) thirty is € 1620 (€ 1945) a year if you are from the EU or Suriname.

If one lives outside of these countries it may depend, from €7000 up to €25000 for dentistry. These figures are taken from The Netherland TOP university according to QS or something: UVA.

As an aside, I don't think the UVA is accorded the same laurels in country. But just as within universities the rivalry is less strong than how it seems in the US, so is the rivalry between universities less pronounced or at least more diversified per seperate study..

EU students or at least Dutch students recieve a grant of around €250 a month and are able to take on a low interest (less than 3% at the moment) loan for about €600 more.

A few years ago almost all studies had only entrance demands of certain courses. Only a few studies as medicin, veterenary medicine, dentistry, and several organisation studies had a numeris fixis. This is changing somewhat. But the Dutch university system remains fairly 'democratic'.

 

[Rover!]

It's my understanding that tuition is much much much cheaper.

It varies from place to place, but it's still a lot cheaper than in the US. In the UK it's currently about 3250 pounds (set to rise to over 7000 soon), in the Netherlands about 1600 euros, Germany is about 7000-8000 euros. These rates only apply for domestic/EU students though, so unless you hold an EU passport you'll have to pay the international tuition fees, which generally are about 3-4 times as much. I've heard that in Germany international fees are only an additional 1000 euros, but don't quote me on it.

Is entrance much harder as well? Or can basically anyone go somewhere?

It depends on the course and university, the better the university the higher the demands. But unless you want to get into the best establishments, if you have decent grades you can get in most of the time.

Do a lot of people flunk out?

I read somewhere that on average 1 out of 3 students dropped out during or after the first year.

Even if you're paying (the equivalent of) a few thousand dollars a year, is the government paying the rest?

Yes. Depending on in which country you study, the government will also give out grants and/or low interest loans to domestic students, almost at the rate of inflation in some cases. Again depending on where you live, the government may or may not subsidize the cost of books, and on some courses you may not have to buy any books at all.

 

[Pezzaturra]

Originally Posted by GlenCoe

I think there are even some states of EU where University is paid fully by the state. And students only pay their own expenses + dorms etc...
But you can guess how decent eduction you will get there

Finland is one of them. In Finland you get even dorm covered and I think you can get a stipend for living expenses.
Of, course Finland is known for "horrible" illiteracy and poor level of education....

Originally Posted by frederik_jon

In Denmark university is free and you get money while you are studying.
The downside of that is that we pay MAAD tax.
There are some educations with certain requirements but mainly they are
all reachable, but there is also alot of studies with kinda low requirements.

I wonder what is the MAAD tax comes to say for income of 150,000 Euros?
How much is your real estate tax in Denmark on average?

 

[fredfred]

1) There's no such thing as a "Free" education. If the government is paying, then you are paying for the Cost of Eduction PLUS the cost of the government administering the program. The usual government fee for administration is 40 to 60%. So the cost is up to 160% of what it should be. You WILL pay for it at some point in your life... more than you should have.

2) The state schools in the United States cost a fraction of private schools - if you go to a school in your state. Instead of $33,000 you pay $6,000.

3) Harvard is now north of $40K, no $33K

 

[Etienne]

Originally Posted by fredfred

The usual government fee for administration is 40 to 60%. So the cost is up to 160% of what it should be.
I don't think you know what you are talking about.

 

[JustinW]

Originally Posted by Étienne

I don't think you know what you are talking about.

+ 1

 

[Mr. Clean]

Originally Posted by Rover!

Germany is about 7000-8000 euros. These rates only apply for domestic/EU students though, so unless you hold an EU passport you'll have to pay the international tuition fees, which generally are about 3-4 times as much. I've heard that in Germany international fees are only an additional 1000 euros, but don't quote me on it.

It depends on the course and university, the better the university the higher the demands. But unless you want to get into the best establishments, if you have decent grades you can get in most of the time.

Where did you get this information? Tuition fees used to be illegal in Germany, since 2002 states have been given the option to raise fees. Depending on what state you are in, tuition can be up to 1000 euros a year. This is for German citizens.

 

[Rover!]

Originally Posted by Mr. Clean

Where did you get this information? Tuition fees used to be illegal in Germany, since 2002 states have been given the option to raise fees. Depending on what state you are in, tuition can be up to 1000 euros a year. This is for German citizens.
I was told so a while back by someone who studied in Germany. Maybe he studied at a private institute? A Google search finds this, from the university of International Applied Sciences in Bonn:

for students from Germany and EU member states: as of intake March 2010: \t € 8,400.- as of intake September 2010:\t € 8,600.- \t for students from Non-EU states: as of intake March 2010: € 9,100.- as of intake September 2010: € 9,300.-

 

[PaulSLH]

Originally Posted by JustinW

This was pretty-much me (though I applied myself a little more in post-grad studies).

I recently had an American comment on my upper 2nd degree on the wall - she said something to the effect of: awww, so you only got a Second Class Degree? Oh well, don't feel too bad - I struggled to get through community college.

The difference in grading and things is pretty difficult to explain to someone from the US. In the UK, getting a First Class Degree (70%+) is very difficult, I think its generally 5-10% who get one, and 2.1 (60%+) is good. In the US 90%+ is good, and GPA is important. My girlfriend who I met at University College London (generally regarded as 3rd in the UK, just behind Oxbridge) is on an exchange year at UPenn, in London she was getting generally 60s, a few low 70s, so probably a high 2.1. At Penn she is regularly getting marked at 95%, aiming for a 3.85-4.0 GPA.

Other differences are obviously in the style of teaching. US universities are much more prescriptive, slightly higher workload in terms of time, but seemingly less focused on independent thought/research and more on just learning stuff that you're told, this is all based on what I understand from my girlfriend who has been to both, and my father who teaches at Cambridge and has had US students, but it may not apply in all cases. Generally in the US the reading lists are very prescriptive, you are told exactly what to read for each class, and sometimes actively discouraged from doing your own research. Assignments are generally shorter and more regular, as are assessments, and they are generally quite set questions. In the UK reading lists are generally very brief, with only the main texts that you are encouraged, but not required to read, and you are expected to do your own research, and read 'around the subject'. Assignments and assessments are generally longer and less often, to allow time for individual research, letting you chose your own questions to answer and own evidence, whereas US essays will mostly be a response to a set text or texts, so they can be more done more quickly and more often.

This seems basically to stem from the British idea that uinversity is not to teach you facts, but to teach you 'to think', to teach you more general skills of research and analysis that allow you to learn independently and apply to different walks of life. This is probably partly because of the increased specialization. In the US you take lots of subjects, and learn the facts about them, but in the UK you take one subject, but in a way that allows you to apply your skills to learn about other things.

Certainly my dad often gets very annoyed with American students, often from the best universities, who want him to tell them exactly what books they should be reading, what they should be thinking, when our idea of university is that it should teach you to find these things out for yourself.