Please Help Me Learn How To Become an IGent

[Film Noir Buff]

Originally Posted by KaiserSose

Additionally, I'm curious why this forum doesn't have a beginners sub-forum or an ongoing thread for beginners.

Originally Posted by KaiserSose

Also, one last quick question: I read in the thrifting thread that people come across nice bespoke suits. Will the label indicate that it is bespoke?

 

[dopey]

Originally Posted by evanrose

I've been posting on this forum for quite some time (and lurking even longer) and the first time I heard the phrase IGent (or is it iGent?) was the other day when I posted my new shoes on the shoe damage forum. I don't know what it means (unless it's completely self-explanatory and I'm just looking for something a bit meatier), but it seems as though it's a brand new thing around here. Off I go to the search field to learn more.

In the meantime, can someone enlighten me? I'm really hoping it's not an insult.

i am not going to tell you what it means, but I will give you some advice. Only use the term among your eFriends.

 

[KaiserSose]

Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff

What?

 

[evanrose]

You step away from this forum for three days and the entire culture changes. I can't believe I missed it.

http://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=88881

So it's an insult, but a good natured one. I hope.

To answer your question OP, hang out and listen, but dress for your age and occupation.

 

[Film Noir Buff]

Originally Posted by KaiserSose

What?
You're good, you're really, really good.

And Im a film noir buff

 

[RJmanbearpig]

Originally Posted by dopey

i am not going to tell you what it means, but I will give you some advice. Only use the term among your eFriends.

it's "e-friends." As in, those are the only friends a manbearpig has.

 

[Film Noir Buff]

Originally Posted by evanrose

You step away from this forum for three days and the entire culture changes. I can't believe I missed it. http://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=88881 So it's an insult, but a good natured one. I hope. To answer your question OP, hang out and listen, but dress for your age and occupation.
Nah, in spite of the misleading title, that's an unofficial rip off

The term was coined by one of my guys on my site.

 

[KaiserSose]

Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff

You're good, you're really, really good.

And Im a film noir buff

I feel like I should understand what you are trying to imply, but I really don't.

If you are making a reference to Kaiser Sose being one of the coolest leading characters in a film noir movie, then I agree. If you are trying to be a dick to me, please do not pick on the helpless.

 

[zeero3]

Play more of a LAG style and don't forget to value-bet the river; however, an iGent will always make comfortable table conversation and tip the dealer...

 

[Douglas]

Originally Posted by Manton

KS, here is something I wrote about bespoke a while back. You say that there are contradictory definitions posted, and I agree. I stand by this as being as close to definitive as we can get:

I would place the differences between bespoke and MTM into three main categories: pattern, fittings, and detailing/cut.

With bespoke, the pattern should be made from scratch, specifically for you. Ideally, the cutter has learned a thing or two over the years, certain tricks that he pioneered, or perhaps things he learned from others and refined for himself through practice and trial and error. Since he sees you and measures you, and then draws your pattern, his pattern will more accurately reflect your body, measurements, shape, idiosyncrasies, etc. than any MTM pattern ever could. I don't want to sell MTM or stock patterns short. It is actually quite hard to devise a pattern system that works well for a variety of men over a range of sizes, and that can be easily modified in the most critical respects. Quite hard. But still, it will not be as faithful to your specific form as a well made pattern designed just for you.

One way to think of it is as follows: the parts of a pattern are two dimensional. They have edges, boundaries or what have you. With bespoke, every single one of those edges is up for grabs. They are all changeable. The can be made longer or shorter, more curved or straighter, angled outward or drawn inward: whatever YOU need for a perfect fit. This is just not possible with MTM. Key modifications are possible, but not everything is on the table for changes.

As to fittings, with MTM you typically get at most one. And this will typically be at a more advanced stage, limiting the extent of possible corrections or modifications. Also, the fittings are done by an in-store tailor who is not the architect of the MTM pattern system.

With bespoke, however, all fittings should be done by the cutter who drafted your pattern. He thus has intimate knowledge of that pattern. He should be able to see clearly where adjustment needs to be made, and he will be in an ideal position to adjust correctly. Then he can correct the pattern accordingly, making your next suit that much better from the get-go. This is one reason why sticking with the same bespoke tailor results in progressively better results until the third suit or so.

Also, you will get more fittings, and they will begin at an earlier stage in the process. If you are a first-time customer, you might even get a "muslin" fitting, that is, a proto-suit made from cheap cloth solely to check the pattern. However, hardly anyone does this anymore. At a minimum, the first fitting should be just the body of the coat with the canvas basted in -- no collar, no sleeves. Front-back and left-right balance are checked, as these are much easier to correct at this stage. Also, if they are off, the whole coat will be a botch. Then the tailor will add the collar and make sure it hugs the neck. Then he will baste in the sleeves and check the pitch. All the while, he is making sure that everything is correct, and that any adjustments he makes to one part do not have unforeseen consequences elsewhere. When everything is right, the basting thread is removed and the coat is "made." Then there is a final chance for him to check things over to make absolutely sure that everything is right. This number of fittings is just not offered with MTM. And if it were, the distinction between MTM and bespoke would blur considerably.

Now, the longer you work with one tailor, the less of this he may need to do. He might get your pattern so down, that he can go straight to a forward fitting every time. But that will have been the result of some trial and error in the beginning, with the first few suits. And, again, that trial and error is not really possible with MTM.

Finally, you should be able to get absolutely whatever you want. You should not be limited by set models or options. You should be able to raise or lower the waist and button point, increase or decrease the distance between buttons, widen or narrow the lapels, raise or lower the gorge, widen or narrow the shoulders, flare or cup the skirt, and on and on through myriad details. Yes, you may have to contend with a "house style" and some tailors can be stubborn about things they simply do not want to do. But the range of options in terms of detailing and cut will nonetheless be much wider than with MTM.

Wait, what? Was this a serious post from Manton? I thought you had retired from the business of serious posting and were in full snark.

 

[Film Noir Buff]

Originally Posted by KaiserSose

I feel like I should understand what you are trying to imply, but I really don't. If you are making a reference to Kaiser Sose being one of the coolest leading characters in a film noir movie, then I agree. If you are trying to be a dick to me, please do not pick on the helpless.
You misjudge me, partially. Kaiser Soze does indeed fit that bill and I am your friend.

 

[Manton]

Originally Posted by KaiserSose

I feel like I should understand what you are trying to imply, but I really don't.

If you are making a reference to Kaiser Sose being one of the coolest leading characters in a film noir movie, then I agree. If you are trying to be a dick to me, please do not pick on the helpless.

He is fighting a proxy war with me. You are just a pawn. Sorry you got dragged into it.

 

[Manton]

Originally Posted by Douglas

Wait, what? Was this a serious post from Manton? I thought you had retired from the business of serious posting and were in full snark.

Wrote it a long time ago and just dug it out.

 

[Douglas]

Originally Posted by Manton

Wrote it a long time ago and just dug it out.

Ahh, phew. Good. I didn't like the new crusading Manton at first, but now that I'm coming up to speed on some of the inside jokes, I am rather enjoying myself.

 

[Douglas]

Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff

You misjudge me, partially. Kaiser Soze does indeed fit that bill and I am your friend.

Love your new avatar, FNB. Very resonant.