Please date my Silk Plush Top Hat

[Tibor]

I recently bought this silk top hat for the horse races, when I am in "morning dress" and to attend fashion events in "white tie". It is silk plush with a well pronounced bell curve. Does anybody know how old it is? I really like the way the shape complements my face but would like to know if this is one of the higher quality top hats. Thank you for your help.

 

[JibranK]

I would suggest asking Cardcaptor Charlie.

 

[HRoi]

does she put out?

 

[Tibor]

Originally Posted by HRoi

does she put out?

Maybe I worded that incorrectly, but I can tell you she definitely has curves.

 

[MalfordOfLondon]

A picture of the inside might help

 

[Anthony Jordan]

Lovely hat. At a guess I would put it before 1900, but I am no expert.

 

[Nexus6]

Forgive my ignorance on this matter,
but wouldn't a light grey be more appropriate for Morning Dress?

 

[GBR]

Originally Posted by Nexus6

Forgive my ignorance on this matter,
but wouldn't a light grey be more appropriate for Morning Dress?

Of course.

Black would be acceptable at the races. Grey is an alternative but neither is exclusive these days.

 

[Tibor]

Black or grey top hats have always been acceptable with "Morning Dress". During the Second War grey became the most common at Ascot. Now black silk plush is considered the most proper at Ascot, or with "morning dress" in general. The reason behind that is grey is usually associated with rentals, or low end production top hats. Since I am going to the Del Mar Races, and not Ascot, few people will know the difference.


Anthony Jordon,
Why does the hat date to 1900 at the latest?

 

[Sator]

"Topper" - who posts over at AAAC will know. He restores top hats.

 

[Topper]

No way to know for certain. Though have seen similar hats designd from 1880 to 1920. Like "flairs" on trousers styles when in and out of fashion.

One major hat manufactory alone had over 200 differnent designs of Top Hat in their catalouge at the beginning of the 20th century.

Given a look at the inside which may indicate a Tip Mark showing the hatter who sold ( not always made) the hat that is a good start, even given access to research the Hatters Gazette Archives to try and track down a name of the hatter ( the address often changed over years with longer lasting hatters giving a indiction of period) it is still difficult, though can probably get an era. That is assuming not being refurbed and the lining also replaced ! I have found hats when refurbing to have multiple liners from the different hatters who have likley worked on the hat over the years

It looks like it has been refurbed? Def polished up recently, unsure if new grosgrain band from photo?

Best is inspecting the inside under the silk lining, the calico shell underneat often can find remarks possibly from the hatter who made it as such as size and sometimes a date.

 

[Sator]

Thanks Topper. I see you got my PM.

BTW, can you educate me on what an "Ascot shaped" style of top hat is. It is mentioned by Whife and Bridgland in the Modern Tailor Outfitter and Clothier, London, 1949.

 

[Topper]

Not seen the phrase or book myself - can you give me some more surrounding context ?

But that is not unexpected. A lot of thing can be laid down either to puffery or merely fashion statement.

Fashion statements does not always become a tradition, but at the same time a tradition is usually formed from a fashion

Ascot in the contect of toppers often referes to the "colour" style being Grey, rather than a style of "shape".

Descriptive ( not necessarily accurate) words are often a used by someone explaining a concept or visualisation, to an audiance who may not necessarily be able to understand what it means but can conceptualise it with descriptives.


e.g. Question did Lincoln wear a stovepipe hat?

 

[jkw]

I'm absolutely no expert here but what leads me to believe that it could be pre 1900 is the curved brim and shape. It's a more victorian style which was favoured before 1900 or maybe 1920ish, when the flat brim and straight hat became more commonplace.

Shamelessley stolen (for a hat like yours):
The top hat was to the C19th what the tricorn was to the C18th. Styles varies enormously in the first part of the decade before setting down to the conventional straight sides we know today.
This is a good example of a popular style with it's extravagantly curved brim and gently flared crown.

 

[Tibor]

How would this hat be received at Royal Ascot? I much prefer the curves on this top hat to the straight sided top hats. To me this top hat is more elegant, stylish, and sophisticated. I personally never cared for the straight sided ones or the stunted top hats below 6 inches tall. Then again everybody is entitled to their own opinion. I certainly am not the foremost authority on sartorial matters, although I know a little.

I would really like to hear what the reception of this particular top hat would be, from the people who actually go to events where they are mandatory.