PINCH TEST

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by davemax, Feb 16, 2012.

  1. TonyThe Tailor

    TonyThe Tailor Senior member

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    In today's world, even full canvas suits have fusing (except say Oxxford HQ), especially the ones tailored in very lightweight fabrics. Fusing adds stability in the lapels and it is also used in most cases in the sleeves.
     


  2. Xenon

    Xenon Senior member

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    This has been my experience recently as well. Even my custom tailor wanted to use some very light weight fusing on a beautiful 7 oz summer suiting. I hope I made it clear that fusing of any type no matter how light weight was not to be used anywhere near my suits. I understand that light weight suitings are difficult to tailor but I am reasonable and accept certain small tailoring faults and flaws.

    I only allow fusing on shirt collars and cuffs and tbh kinda regret not getting those unfused also.
     


  3. Xenon

    Xenon Senior member

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    Look at the exterior cloth surface of the suit. Now try to find the underside of that exterior cloth in the suit front panels. Can you locate it? Does that surface have the same appearance as the external suit surface? If not than fusing is present. The fusing is maybe black. As said above a fused cloth will look and feel like a single layer upon casual inspection.
     


  4. TonyThe Tailor

    TonyThe Tailor Senior member

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    As long as you accept the cockling and instability of it then it is fine. I prefer to use fusing in light weight garments (cottons, 8 oz or lighter wools, et al) for performance and stability reasons, and especially for clients who live in humid climates.

    At the risk of SF scorn: there is nothing wrong with using high quality fusibles that are applied properly.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2012


  5. Xenon

    Xenon Senior member

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    I many aspects I agree with you. I have said it a few times already but modern fusings can be of very high quality and quite durable. I have many fused suits that have been dry cleaned numerous times without the slightest issue. In fact fusings may actually increase the tensile strength of the cloth panels. For me fusing isn't a performance issue but more of a feel/look issue. I have an obsession for lightweight silky smooth and bouncy springy suitings/fabric which have a special interaction with light. and when fusings are applied to these cloths something is lost in the bounciness,nervousness of the cloth. It's almost as if the 3D aspect is lost, if that makes sense.

    That said and for this very reason I don't believe fusings take away from sturdier/thicker cloths like flannels for instance. These heavier cloths are favoured on SF and thus I don't see why there is so much hate for fusings here. I personally don't have an appreciation for the sturdier stuff though.
     


  6. phxlawstudent

    phxlawstudent Senior member

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    To correctly perform the pinch test, you have to be able to remove the outer fabric from the canvas and be able to rub the separated fabric against itself. It should feel like the fabric in the sleeves (minus the lining) when rubbed together. If there is something in between the fabric you pinched and you cannot easily separate the interloper, then that is fusing. If on the other hand, you can rub the fabric against itself, there is no fusing.

    Half canvas is supposed to be glued on the bottom half and stitched on the top half. Don't have any pieces in front of me, but IIRC, the same rules apply and you can feel the fusing down at the bottom.
     


  7. MSAWTF

    MSAWTF New Member

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    Yes I see exactly what you are saying. There is a different material attached to the outside fabric.It is the same color as the fabric so I couldn't tell at first look and it really attached so it seems like one fabric, but the material on the chest is certainly thicker than the sleeves as a result.

    I have since gone to Nordstroms and began pinch testing every suit on the their rack, dodging various sales people who were annoyed, and discovered a key difference. You can really tell on the Hickey Freeman and Canalis what it should feel like. The outside layer should literally feel exactly like the sleeves on top of the canvas. It is actually a thin layer of fabric which pulls away very easily. pulling back the breast pocket slightly helps to identify this. The half canvas is annoying because it is harder to separate and I think after my inspection, they mostly are fused canvas anyway. I also wonder if I was damaging some of the half canvas suits as I could start to hear the fabric pull away slightly when seperating it.

    Which begs the question, is there is a lower end real canvassed option? Or do you really have to move up to Hickey and Canali to get a real canvas suit?

    I also think there is something to be said for the 346 after tearing it apart. While it certainly isn't of the quality of a canvassed suit, there is a canvas like piece for structure and it isn't that far off some of the higher end half canvassed suits which cost 3 times more. The fabric is really weak though with a blend of wool and spandex basically.
     


  8. phoenixrecon

    phoenixrecon Senior member

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    346 is a floating chest piece fused suit.... very far off from half canvassing....
     


  9. MSAWTF

    MSAWTF New Member

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    Right but Hart Shaffner Marx is floating canvas chest piece fused suit for twice the price and three times when they are in sale. I believe Boss is the same as well for 3 times the price. That is all I meant about the 346.
     


  10. phxlawstudent

    phxlawstudent Senior member

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    Which half canvassed pieces were you pinch testing? The only ones I know of that Nordy's sells is Burberry & HSM Gold Trumpeter, haven't seen the GT at my local store, only the white tag. Can't remember if those were half or not.

    Brooks Brothers mainline suits are a pretty good example of half canvassing IIRC.

    Honestly, I don't think 99.5% of the people out there will be able to tell whether your suit is half canvas or full. Thus, if you would rather save some cash, why the fuck not buy half canvas? I stay away from fused because they usually cut so many corners I notice and couldn't stand it. I don't think 99% of the people out there would be able to tell if a suit was fused, although they can always spot a poorly crafted garment. Exception: JAB Executive suit in black. For some reason people really like the look of it. I cannot explain it. Perhaps its the black color.
     


  11. Classic Car

    Classic Car Senior member

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    Please explain what is a floating chest piece fused suit and the difference between half canvassing.
     


  12. CYstyle

    CYstyle Senior member

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    +1 I know 2 well respected tailors SF approved that use high quality fusing in their suits as well. I think people on SF get caught up too much on canvassing and fusing terms, yet in reality given a high quality handmade garment with light fusing most wouldn't be able to tell at all.

    High quality fusing on light and difficult fabrics can keep the suit cleaner, otherwise without it there may be a lot of puckering etc.
     


  13. blahman

    blahman Senior member

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    Please read this very informative thread by the venerable Jeffy: http://www.styleforum.net/t/269171/canvas-and-suit-construction

    That thread along with Vox's need to be blown up and highlighted somewhere and some way that's easily spotted.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2012


  14. Classic Car

    Classic Car Senior member

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    Shall I understand floating chest piece is without padded lapel as half canvas?
     




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