Manton
RINO
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2002
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I posted this in the Logsdail/Raphael thread, but it quickly got buried in the ensuing SF Cool Clique circler jerk that thread became. Because I do not feel I was succifiently attacked for it, and because I think the topic is worth exploring, I am reposting it here:
On this question of annoying clients, there is more than one way to be picky. Some allegations of picky are indeed unfair.
For instance, you ask for a particular detail and don't get it. If you insist on it, is that picky?
Some things I have let slide. For instance, I like my trousers to have a rear pocket on the right side only, with a cut through buttonhole. I have had this screwed up in various ways: pocket on the left side, two pockets instead of one, flap when not requested, etc. Yet I have never refused to take a pair because of this. I have, however, noted the mistake and asked that future orders be made to my specs. And they have.
Bigger mistakes: asking for notch and getting peak -- that I would not let slide.
Now, insisting that it be done right may nonetheless piss off the tailor. It will cost him to get it right. The enlightened thing is to realize that remaking it is A) the right thing to do, and B) a gesture of goodwill that will encourage future orders. But not all tailors see it this way. So they can view your insistence on a "do over" as unreasonable intransigence on your part. Tailors can hold such unreasonable grudges and blame the client for being "picky." But who really is in the wrong here?
Another definition of picky is to be hyper-critical of every fit detail. Even here there is a sliding scale. For instance, one suit I got from a tailor had several, glaringly obvious fit problems. At first he would not acknowledge them. Then he said they were minor. Then he said he would fix them. He didn't. Then he said, No one is ever 100% so we will do better next time. There was no next time.
Some can be very minor, but nonetheless real. I had one coat on which the right sleeve pitch was off. At first, the tailor took it and fixed it. It was still off. When I pointed that out, he got testy and denied it, blaming my shirt. It was clear that he was not going to take it back. Since I liked the coat in every other respect, and liked the tailor, I took it and got it fixed elsewhere. His next coat, I note, got the sleeve pitch exactly right on both sleeves.
A third definition is wanting a great deal of input into the design. Now, some tailors are willing to let the customer have a lot of input, others virtually none, and others some. I have no problem with this, so long as it is made clear up front. What I do find mystifying is why some Internet avengers loudly insist that any client who expects to have any input into the process must be a busybody and impossible. This is bespoke, after all. If a tailor is willing to make changes based on a client's wishes, what business is it of any third party?
If you find a tailor who's cut is exactly what you want without any changes, then great. Similarly, maybe it's not what you thought you wanted, but once you wear it you realize that you love it. Also great. But if you mostly like it but want a few things changed, and he will do that, that can be great too. Does that make you "picky"?
The "final frontier" as it were would be to get down into the nitty gritty of pattern drafting. Only one tailor I have worked with allowed this, and I never really delved into to too deeply. I just made a suggestion here or there, and then watched him alter the pattern based on that suggestion. The results were good, more owing to his knowledge than my suggestion. Most tailors, however, would object, and with good reason. I doubt that good results are the norm, and rather suspect that they are rare. No matter what the educated amateur thinks he knows about pattern drafting, the tailor knows more. Moreover, he has a system and body of habits that works for him. Even if you can get him to agree to deviate, you are really just asking for trouble.
On this question of annoying clients, there is more than one way to be picky. Some allegations of picky are indeed unfair.
For instance, you ask for a particular detail and don't get it. If you insist on it, is that picky?
Some things I have let slide. For instance, I like my trousers to have a rear pocket on the right side only, with a cut through buttonhole. I have had this screwed up in various ways: pocket on the left side, two pockets instead of one, flap when not requested, etc. Yet I have never refused to take a pair because of this. I have, however, noted the mistake and asked that future orders be made to my specs. And they have.
Bigger mistakes: asking for notch and getting peak -- that I would not let slide.
Now, insisting that it be done right may nonetheless piss off the tailor. It will cost him to get it right. The enlightened thing is to realize that remaking it is A) the right thing to do, and B) a gesture of goodwill that will encourage future orders. But not all tailors see it this way. So they can view your insistence on a "do over" as unreasonable intransigence on your part. Tailors can hold such unreasonable grudges and blame the client for being "picky." But who really is in the wrong here?
Another definition of picky is to be hyper-critical of every fit detail. Even here there is a sliding scale. For instance, one suit I got from a tailor had several, glaringly obvious fit problems. At first he would not acknowledge them. Then he said they were minor. Then he said he would fix them. He didn't. Then he said, No one is ever 100% so we will do better next time. There was no next time.
Some can be very minor, but nonetheless real. I had one coat on which the right sleeve pitch was off. At first, the tailor took it and fixed it. It was still off. When I pointed that out, he got testy and denied it, blaming my shirt. It was clear that he was not going to take it back. Since I liked the coat in every other respect, and liked the tailor, I took it and got it fixed elsewhere. His next coat, I note, got the sleeve pitch exactly right on both sleeves.
A third definition is wanting a great deal of input into the design. Now, some tailors are willing to let the customer have a lot of input, others virtually none, and others some. I have no problem with this, so long as it is made clear up front. What I do find mystifying is why some Internet avengers loudly insist that any client who expects to have any input into the process must be a busybody and impossible. This is bespoke, after all. If a tailor is willing to make changes based on a client's wishes, what business is it of any third party?
If you find a tailor who's cut is exactly what you want without any changes, then great. Similarly, maybe it's not what you thought you wanted, but once you wear it you realize that you love it. Also great. But if you mostly like it but want a few things changed, and he will do that, that can be great too. Does that make you "picky"?
The "final frontier" as it were would be to get down into the nitty gritty of pattern drafting. Only one tailor I have worked with allowed this, and I never really delved into to too deeply. I just made a suggestion here or there, and then watched him alter the pattern based on that suggestion. The results were good, more owing to his knowledge than my suggestion. Most tailors, however, would object, and with good reason. I doubt that good results are the norm, and rather suspect that they are rare. No matter what the educated amateur thinks he knows about pattern drafting, the tailor knows more. Moreover, he has a system and body of habits that works for him. Even if you can get him to agree to deviate, you are really just asking for trouble.