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Persian Rugs

Discussion in 'Fine Living, Home, Design & Auto' started by Nantucket Red, Jun 30, 2006.

  1. globetrotter

    globetrotter Senior member

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    In that case, I think you are going about it the exact right way. What I am in the market for is different - I want new, silk, handmade rugs, which I am figuring to get at source for less than $1K. I'd love to blow $15K on carpets, but I can't justify that, at this stage in my life.

    just an aside - my grandmother went to afganastan in the 50's for 5 years, and came home with what would probrably be $100K in carpets today. as she got older, she took really bad care of them, cats were involved, and then, when she died, her kids argued about her stuff and everything went into storage and in the end, nobody got anything.

    Somehow, I suspected that there was some such story behind it. The site is informative, but I would never expect to get an investment-grade rug from a place selling rugs in the hundreds of dollars. It struck me as the Men's Warehouse of carpet stores.



    What I want are collector rugs made with handspun wool and natural dies. After just a little bit of research, it's clear that these can be had at a price. I originally was considering a budget of about $3500 per rug tops, but it looks like I'll have to throw budget constraints out the window. I'm not going to find a stunning Tabriz or Kerman by skimping.

    I live in mortal terror of my grandkids (if there ever are any) considering me a skinflint. I'm prepared to lay out good money to live with and pass on good stuff.
     
  2. LabelKing

    LabelKing Senior member

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    The 1950s would have been the Nadir Shah period, I recall. It was somewhat cosmopolitan.

    Globetrotter, is that a Joel-Peter Witkin avatar?
     
  3. globetrotter

    globetrotter Senior member

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    LK

    its Seiji Miyaguchi from the 7 samurai, in the scene where he is waiting patiently to kill the bandits in a field of flowers. Skalogre was kind enough to find it for me.
     
  4. LabelKing

    LabelKing Senior member

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    LK

    its Seiji Miyaguchi from the 7 samurai, in the scene where he is waiting patiently to kill the bandits in a field of flowers. Skalogre was kind enough to find it for me.

    Ah, it looks like a Witkin photo in that size.
     
  5. Nantucket Red

    Nantucket Red Senior member

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    In that case, I think you are going about it the exact right way. What I am in the market for is different - I want new, silk, handmade rugs, which I am figuring to get at source for less than $1K. I'd love to blow $15K on carpets, but I can't justify that, at this stage in my life.

    just an aside - my grandmother went to afganastan in the 50's for 5 years, and came home with what would probrably be $100K in carpets today. as she got older, she took really bad care of them, cats were involved, and then, when she died, her kids argued about her stuff and everything went into storage and in the end, nobody got anything.


    Thanks for the vote of confidence, Globe. I'm very fortunate to have some capital to throw at this project, but that doesn't mean I'm approaching it with more dollars than sense. My furniture will be ready about two months from the time I order it in another week or two. Ideally, I'd like to have the rugs in place when it arrives, but it's looking like that will be a tall order.

    I wouldn't be doing this if I had twins on the way. [​IMG]
     
  6. carpets international

    carpets international New Member

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    Thanks, everyone, for the feedback. I've found it quite helpful.

    Thanks, Jmath, for those links. I've been studying up.

    I've decided that since I'm commissioning custom handmade furniture for the entire place, I also want collector-grade rugs. This means hand-spun, naturally died rugs. I'm buying nothing sight-unseen.

    Zach and John, I spent quite a bit of time in India in the late 80s-early 90s when I was studying the sitar, so I'm quite familiar with the kinds of opportunities it presents as well as the logistical challenges. Still, the more I think about it, the more travelling to the region to buy just plain makes sense.

    Since I would have to take as brief and targeted a trip as possible, I would need to have as much specific information as possible before I go. For example, where can I find the best selection of hand-spun, naturally died rugs? What is the price differential? For example, what would I pay for an exquisite Persian Tabriz that would cost over $20k in the States (and likely way more in Japan)? I'm not shy about putting money into this, but naturally I want to maximize my purchasing power. I would also have to factor in shipping and customs charges in addition to travel expenses.

    Can anyone give me an idea of how to manage the logistics of a rug-purchasing trip?


    if you are buying a rug for the first time,you are very lucky because i accidently read your post,
    instead of trying to explain how good i am at this subject i prefer to get right to the point, most people now days tend to be apealed to rugs that macth the colour of there interior decoration. We have no right to critisize this because it's Taste , one man's trash is other man's treausure.But i can't keep my self from critisizing.İf a carpet has the identical colours as it surrounding it will look machine-made.It won't have any spirit.
    When we are selecting hand made carpet's we must select as if we're selecting any kind of art.Paintings , scrupture , e.t.c.What we must look for is for the carpet to speak to us.Only you will hear it speak.It will say to you 'buy me'!.
    Yes , of course the colours must compliment the area where it's being used.But the colours must be completely different in order to make a statement and say ' I am here'.Because they're so beautiful , they hate being ignored.You can hear from everyone different opinions.Don't let this confuse you for everyone speaks they're own taste.I'll personaly make sure that you're guided to making the best decision which will keep you happy all your life.I am the owner and the president of Carpet's International.I was bored and i was surfing through internet.Client like yourself maybe too voulnerable for some people it's not for me to comment because there are also very many good people outthere who are doing decent bussines.I'll leave you e-mail and contact number.Pls. contact me and I will explain you the details on how you can see some very nice works of art at reasonable value.

    Best Regards and Good Luck..
    P.S:pls. ask for me personally.

    Halim Karagoziyan
    hlmkrgz@yahoo.com
    Tel:1-817-704 3032 [​IMG]
     
  7. CitizenK

    CitizenK Active Member

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    Nantucket Red:

    Greetings from the land of beautiful oriental carpets!

    For the last week or so, I have been following your thread about which Persian carpets to purchase with great interest. I've been a SF member for a couple of years now, and I always enjoy reading your posts. I don't post very often on forums (SF, AAAC or LL), but I always enjoy everyones (mostly) intelligent and witty opinions.

    I have been looking at and buying oriental carpets (some Persian, mostly Afghan) for 25+ years now, so I thought I might be able to assist you in your decision making.

    My first recommendation would be for you to decide what color carpet you would like to buy. Then, think about the style of the carpet, for example: floral or geometric. Size is also important, too small a rug can be lost in a room, too large and it just overwhelms. Be sure that the carpets you buy are silk or wool or a combination of the two.

    From your posts it sounds like you want top quality carpets, so you need to look for a high knot count and well finished edges. Personally I like a nice bit of flat weave on my carpets. If the ends are embroidered, that is a good sign of quality too. It proves that the weaver put thought and care into what he/she made. Also, I would advise you to buy new carpets. In my experience, most first-time buyers feel better about purchasing new carpets.

    Lastly, I would advise you to buy your carpets locally, there are advantages to doing this. Unless you really want to travel to Kabul, Tehran or Kashgar, that is!

    OBTW: DO NOT buy carpets on the internet! It is important that you see and feel a carpet before you buy it. Just my 2 cents...

    Good luck!

    John R. Kane
    LTC, US Army
    Kabul, Afghanistan
    kanej@isaf-hq.nato.int
     
  8. Nantucket Red

    Nantucket Red Senior member

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    I paid a visit to the rug shop in my new neighborhood yesterday. It is run by an Iranian gentleman who was a diplomat posted to Japan when the revolution happened. He sought political asylum and got Japanese citizenship. He showed me over a dozen rugs, and after looking, feeling, and discussing at length, we narrowed it down to three candidates for the dining room rug; two Tabriz and an Isfahan. My favorite Tabriz also happens to be the least expensive of the lot, cheap being a term that is in no way applicable.

    I am going to buy wool rugs. Silk rugs are things you hang on the wall.

    CitizenK, I think I'm going to follow your advice and buy locally. The advantages are that they will bring the rugs I like to my apartment so I can see the actual rugs in place. Also, it will allow me to develop a relationship with the seller, who actually lives very close by in the higher rent area of the neighborhood. Many of the rugs he can discount steeply. Considering also that I simply don't have the time for a purchasing trip, buying locally has clear advantages, price not necessarily being among them.
     
  9. CitizenK

    CitizenK Active Member

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    Nantucket,

    I knew you were the sensible type! Just don't buy any of those white Tabriz'es, they show dirt something terrible.

    Well, that's it for now. I've got 7 weeks more before I head back to Norfolk VA, and it can't come soon enough.

    If you want to raise an old soldiers morale, send (kanej@isaf-hq.nato.int) or post some more pictures of Ms. Pussycat! She is a beauriful woman![​IMG]

    Best Regards,

    J.R. Kane
     
  10. Kent Wang

    Kent Wang Senior member Dubiously Honored Affiliate Vendor

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    Have you seen these Afghan war rugs? [​IMG]
     
  11. Nantucket Red

    Nantucket Red Senior member

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    Nantucket,

    I knew you were the sensible type! Just don't buy any of those white Tabriz'es, they show dirt something terrible.

    Well, that's it for now. I've got 7 weeks more before I head back to Norfolk VA, and it can't come soon enough.

    If you want to raise an old soldiers morale, send (kanej@isaf-hq.nato.int) or post some more pictures of Ms. Pussycat! She is a beauriful woman![​IMG]

    Best Regards,

    J.R. Kane


    One of the favorites I eliminated the other day was a pale tan Tabriz with lots of salmon-pink (a favorite color of mine). There's already so much white in my apartment that the rug really needs to add color. My favorite has a dark blue ground with a lot of reds and some muted greens. It will also go nicely with the runner I've chosen for the hallway.

    Thanks. I don't know if I'd call her beautiful, but Pussycat's got a body nearly hot enough to melt stone.

    Have you seen these Afghan war rugs?

    Yes, I'm familiar with Afghan war rugs, but that's about the least subtle one I've seen. Most of the ones I've seen show a battle scene in a landscape. They are so very not-my-style.
     
  12. Nantucket Red

    Nantucket Red Senior member

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    Saturday, I had Mr. Bassiri, who runs the local rug shop, Persian Plaza, bring over my favorite fugs to see on my floor. The Tabriz hall runner fit perfectly, but will require that a floor-mounted doorstop be exchanged for a wall-mounted one. The clear choice for the dining kitchen was the Tabriz with the navy blue ground. It warmed up the room like none of the others and went best with the hall runner, which is by the same maker, Fakher. The dining room rug is wool woven on a silk warp. These are the rarest and most luxurious Tabriz rugs made according to my mother, who has a few in her Persian rug collection.

    He discounted the marked price by 45%, which brought them down to the upper end of what I was willing to spend, so it was a deal. He left them with me so I could get down to the voluptuary pursuit of living with some of the finest Tabrizes made.

    I'll be posting pictures as soon as I can.
     
  13. Nantucket Red

    Nantucket Red Senior member

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    Well, it's taken some time, but I'm finally getting around to posting a (very poor) picture of my rugs.

    My new dining room table and chairs will be delivered next weekend. I'm going to have to buy a new camera to do it all justice.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. LabelKing

    LabelKing Senior member

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    That's a very rich pattern, quite nice.

    Give it some wear, and it should be decadent. Now, you only need to find a gilded tortoise.[​IMG]
     
  15. CitizenK

    CitizenK Active Member

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    Nantucket,

    That Persian carpet you bought is just absolutely beautiful! Very elegant! I really like the center medallion. IMO, it is almost too nice to put a table and chairs over it...

    It looks like you made a very wise choice. That carpet should last you a lifetime!

    Enjoy!

    J.R. Kane
     
  16. faustian bargain

    faustian bargain Senior member

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    it's one good argument for a glass-topped table.
     
  17. Nantucket Red

    Nantucket Red Senior member

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    Thanks for the votes of confidence in my rugs. The photo doesn't really do much justice to the colors, especially the salmon-pink and the pale green of the center medallion. The way these colors change subtly in the light makes the rug seem alive. By happy coincidence, the salmon-pink in the rug goes beautifully with the somewhat paler shade of curtains I chose.

    LK: On the lookout for a gilded tortoise. [​IMG]

    CK: I may have to produce heirs, since these rugs will outlive me.

    FB: Yes, good argument for a glass table, but unfortunately, the table is one massive slab of bookmatched cherry (if such a thing can be considered unfortunate).
     
  18. kronik

    kronik Senior member

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    Bumping an ancient thread - I just impulse-purchased my first rug - a 5'x6' (I know, odd size) Tabriz that was retailing for $17,000 - I paid nowhere near that but now that I look at rugman again, I probably overpaid. Looking for opinions and mostly, vindication. [​IMG] It is silk/wool, hand-knotted, some other rug-type mumbo-jumbo that I don't understand.. Tabriz fish? design. Pictures coming soon.. [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  19. Nantucket Red

    Nantucket Red Senior member

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    Gorgeous rug! Love the design and colors.

    Yes, that's the Tabriz fish design. As my rug merchant explained to me, Tabriz is in the middle of the desert far from the ocean, so they put the ocean on their rugs. The fish are swimming around the little rosettes.
     
  20. kronik

    kronik Senior member

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    Gorgeous rug! Love the design and colors.

    Yes, that's the Tabriz fish design. As my rug merchant explained to me, Tabriz is in the middle of the desert far from the ocean, so they put the ocean on their rugs. The fish are swimming around the little rosettes.


    Thanks NR. [​IMG] Cost me 3k, hopefully it was money well-spent. I noticed someone said that the pricing on rugs can be somewhat arbitrary and to just be happy with your purchase.. I really do like my rug.

    Now I just need one like yours for the dining room... omfg, that thing is beautiful.
     

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