People with plebeian taste

[unpainted huffheinz]

Originally Posted by Fuuma

http://www.amazon.com/Distinction-So...3999569&sr=8-1

Your approach of "taste" is very plebeian.

The translators name 'Richard Nice' made me chuckle.

 

[Fidgeteer]

Originally Posted by Fuuma

http://www.amazon.com/Distinction-So...3999569&sr=8-1 Your approach of "taste" is very plebeian.
Contrary to a few other responses you received, I thought your post and link were interesting. That the idea of taste as a form of upper-class domination through emphasis on individuality (a/k/a, individual will) requires an entire book is another subject, however -- one that would require reading all or part of the book itself. My first question might be: Why does the author consider the expression of individuality to be inherently elitist? The pivotal scene in practically every humanist film and novel is one in which an oppressed character receives the revelation of individuality -- the sense of their life's inherent value -- apart from their class. The scene is always anti-elitist -- as in Lang's Metropolis (and in the countless anime iterations of his idea of awakened robot consciousness). Taste can be interpreted as the ordinary person's moment of awakening, not a moment of self-supremacy: The regular Joe who finds himself at a concert of late Beethoven string quartets and connects to their depth and beauty. I don't normally comment on errors in an internet post, but yours points out an idea I think you're trying to put across: "Your approach of 'taste' is clearly plebeian." We all realize that you meant to rather than of, which shows why having to read a translation has nothing to do with taste or refinement: It's quite possible you're translating your thoughts into English from some other language, yet your words are still expressive and still worth reading. Otherwise, you wouldn't have gotten so many responses. The same might be true, it seems to me, of the book to which you linked: Ideas, not a perfect knowledge of the French language, is the point. Polylinguism would be an ideal skill for readers, but for many, it isn't an option. A person needn't know French to have a developing sense of taste. They need only respond to ideas -- wherever they find them -- with thought and imagination rather than knee-jerk conditioning. Taste is dictated by the level of value we recognize in works of art, and the intelligence with which we respond to what we see. The problem is not that someone has picked up a book by Dan Brown. The problem is that they actually finished it and now want to read another, but have set down books like Tristram Shandy, Minima Moralia, The Saragossa Manuscript, To the Lighthouse and Lesbia Brandon because those books seemed dull or empty by comparison. The problem is also that they have received gaudy defects from their bad book -- such as an obvious "message" -- as virtues to seek out and praise. The total lack of subtlety inflicted on modern audiences is now required of them, which is part of the reason that political dialogue in America has become a depressing cartoon, a parade of antonyms. Then, too, a person who hates great works of art for interesting reasons can also have taste. The point is the level of understanding and the value of the response. Henry W. Fowler, wrist-slapping author of Modern English Usage, actually considers it an egregious breach of taste to use French words in a French accent when one is speaking English. (I consider him to have been a class transvestite and a brown-nosing upper-class apologist, but that's for another thread.)

 

[Connemara]

Inability to appreciate jazz and classical (particularly Mozart, Chopin, Handel) relegates one to the marsupial heap.

Plebes make me sick. They should be exterminated, along with the homosexuals.

 

[Big Pun]

 

[Bradford]

What's wrong with Will Ferrell movies? He's the funniest actor working today.

 

[Dakota rube]

Originally Posted by Flambeur

This should be in dumb threads. Reads like something an angsty 14 yo teen would write.

You forgot self aggrandizing.

 

[ConcernedParent]

Originally Posted by Connemara

Inability to appreciate jazz and classical (particularly Mozart, Chopin, Handel) relegates one to the marsupial heap.

Plebes make me sick. They should be exterminated, along with the homosexuals.

You the man now dog huh?

 

[Connemara]

Originally Posted by Bradford

What's wrong with Will Ferrell movies? He's the funniest actor working today.
Are you joking around?

Originally Posted by ConcernedParent

You the man now dog huh?
Hell yeah.

 

[StephenHero]

I've found that the correlation between intelligence and taste in Appreciation is extremely high like the OP suggests. There is a very strong inverse relationship between amount of hours spent jerking off to Carmen Electra and ability to perform mental tasks.


That begs for the question: What is the highest taste in Appreciation? I think I'll make a stab and say it's amateur voyeur Appreciation between mixed generations.

 

[Bradford]

Watched Old School again this morning - great film!

Now watching Pearl Harbor. You can't beat Ben Affleck in a Michael Bay movie.

 

[tagutcow]

Originally Posted by Fidgeteer

Contrary to a few other responses you received, I thought your post and link were interesting. That the idea of taste as a form of upper-class domination through emphasis on individuality (a/k/a, individual will) requires an entire book is another subject, however -- one that would require reading all or part of the book itself.

My first question might be: Why does the author consider the expression of individuality to be inherently elitist? The pivotal scene in practically every humanist film and novel is one in which an oppressed character receives the revelation of individuality -- the sense of their life's inherent value -- apart from their class. The scene is always anti-elitist -- as in Lang's Metropolis (and in the countless anime iterations of his idea of awakened robot consciousness). Taste can be interpreted as the ordinary person's moment of awakening, not a moment of self-supremacy: The regular Joe who finds himself at a concert of late Beethoven string quartets and connects to their depth and beauty.

I agree with you that I found the thesis of the book suspect (or at least, the thesis of the book as presented in the reviews, although I doubt Fuuma would have linked to it if the reviews were misleading.) But then again, Marxist social theorists are honor-bound to find the fingerprints of class consciousness on everything.

Of course, "refined taste" (I'm reminded of the "Finer Things Club" on The Office) often requires an investment of time and occasionally money, and perhaps having enough of either to spend on cultivating one's cultural tastes was at one time- and perhaps, to a lesser extent, still is- seen as a luxury of the well-to-do. It is likely that a man on the street may not fully appreciate Op. 131 on a first listen, but then neither may an experienced classical listener. I'm sure the delicate notes of a fine wine would be totally wasted on me, simply due to a lack of exposure, just as I'm sure a Wagner opera would bore me to tears. On the other hand, the pleasures of Rihanna and Mello Yello are immediate and require little cultivation of taste, and I would hope that I enjoy both does not in-and-of-itself make me unrefined.

I don't doubt upper classes have used the idea of "refined taste" to separate themselves from the plebes who didn't have the leisure time to cultivate such tastes, but this is much different from believing that a distinction between refined and unrefined tastes is entirely a construct of class differences.

Taste is dictated by the level of value we recognize in works of art, and the intelligence with which we respond to what we see. The problem is not that someone has picked up a book by Dan Brown. The problem is that they actually finished it and now want to read another, but have set down books like Tristram Shandy, Minima Moralia, The Saragossa Manuscript, To the Lighthouse and Lesbia Brandon because those books seemed dull or empty by comparison. The problem is also that they have received gaudy defects from their bad book -- such as an obvious "message" -- as virtues to seek out and praise. The total lack of subtlety inflicted on modern audiences is now required of them, which is part of the reason that political dialogue in America has become a depressing cartoon, a parade of antonyms.

Then, too, a person who hates great works of art for interesting reasons can also have taste. The point is the level of understanding and the value of the response.

An interesting case is Armond White, a movie reviewer for New York Magazine who has earned a reputation as a contrarian because he almost always contradicts the prevailing opinions of other film critics. Thing is, though, he is always articulate and thoughtful in defending his opinion, and occasionally (as in his opinion of "A.I.") I think his valuations are completely on-the-nose.

 

[acidboy]

Originally Posted by Connemara

Inability to appreciate jazz and classical (particularly Mozart, Chopin, Handel) relegates one to the marsupial heap.

Plebes make me sick. They should be exterminated, along with the homosexuals.

Hell yes! People who don't like Kenny G. are tasteless savages.

 

[ssnyc]

People who hang out at Tenjune and make out with 6's are fallopian.

 

[MetroStyles]

Originally Posted by ssnyc

People who hang out at Tenjune and make out with 6's are fallopian.

Totes. Sound like cockfagzzz to me.

 

[ssnyc]

Any better luck this weekend?