Pattern matching

[gregory]

I am about to take seven Jantzen shirts to be modified. He can either just take the fabric off the seams to remove blousiness in the sleeves, the body and  reduce the sleeve length, OR, he can do something more thorough - deconstruct the shirt, take off the sleeves, re-set it, etc. The downsides of the 2nd option are price and loss of pattern matching. In your view, how important is pattern matching? I feel it is fairly important. It is often a mark of a high quality/custom garment, and I find myself looking at others' shoulders to see whether their shirts are pattern-matched. I do this all the time. It's sick, I know

But it's only because of what this forum has done to me.

 

[Mike C.]

Why would you de-construct a custom shirt? Didn't you get it made to your specifications?

It was probably poor measuring, oh well. Anyway, I don't think pattern matching is all that important. I believe overall fit, which you're going for, is the most important thing.

Plus, for the cheap cost of Jantzen shirts, it probably would cost more than the shirt itself to start taking off sleeves. Just order a new batch.

 

[gregory]

Why would you de-construct a custom shirt? Didn't you get it made to your specifications?

I thought the shirts fitted me rather well but a tailor who saw them told me that they didn't fit as well as they could. Plus, I lost *a little* weight -- very happy about this.

It was probably poor measuring, oh well. Anyway, I don't think pattern matching is all that important. I believe overall fit, which you're going for, is the most important thing.

Noted.

Plus, for the cheap cost of Jantzen shirts, it probably would cost more than the shirt itself to start taking off sleeves. Just order a new batch.

I have made friends with a tailor, who promised to try to keep the cost down. Besides, I really hate keeping anything in my wardrobe that I don't like, and I don't see my Jantzen shirts the same way anymore after being told that they didn't fit very well.

I would order a new batch from Jantzen, except that Jantzen takes so long to reply to emails and to process orders. I love Ricky Ho, and I send him postcards, etc, but I just need more certainty and reliability.

1) That's why I've been asking around: What is the closest thing to Jantzen?

2) If I have these shirts de-constructed and re-tailored to fit me, would one of it likely be good enough to be used as a sample shirt for future Jantzen orders?

 

[gregory]

I'd love to hear what members of the forum think: Would you sacrifice pattern-matching to improve, albeit not dramatically, the fit of your shirt?

 

[bengal-stripe]

I thought the shirts fitted me rather well but a tailor who saw them told me that they didn't fit as well as they could...
...and I don't see my Jantzen shirts the same way anymore after being told that they didn't fit very well.

Be very careful. Tailors and hairdressers are notorious for putting down other peoples work. If you don't feel the need to alter your shirts, do not touch them.

Definitely don't have all 7 shirts altered in one go. How do you know, whether your friend is any good at tailoring? That thing about patter matching makes me suspect that he does not know what he is talking about. When you take in a shirt, even if you do it right all the way through the side seams (from the bottom hem in one continuous seam right down to the cuffs), that does not affect your pattern matching. (Patterns get matched in the cutting stages.)

Better to ask for more opinions, but if you feel the need to go ahead, try out your friend's skills with one sample shirt. We don't want to read postings in the near future like: "My tailor ruined seven shirts."

 

[brescd01]

I have to agree with Bengal Stripe: for shirts, I think, the fit is what is comfortable for you. I mean, there are clearly ill-fitting shirts, but amongst my bespoke and made to measure shirts, the fit varries because of the style of the manufacturer. My Land's End MTM are more form fitting than my Mr Harris shirts, which have plenty of room. Shirts also will shrink over time and change their fit slightly, as I know from the RTW shirts I wore.

 

[gregory]

Dear bengal-stripe and brescd01: I appreciate your advice. Not to offend you in any way at all but he has been a shirtmaker for 10+ years and he did point out several areas in which the fit was less than ideal (notably sleeve length and yoke width) and I agree with him. Actually, Â he mentioned that I will lose the pattern matching only for the more thorough option (taking off the sleeves). I won't lose the pattern matching if it's just a matter of cutting off fabric from the side seams (as you pointed out). So I'm weighing having fabric removed from the side seams against a more thorough deconstruction which involves taking off the sleeves (for a better fit than the first option) but the downside of the second option is losing the pattern matching. Thoughts?

On a related note: 1) What is the closest thing to Jantzen? (or, Where would you get your shirts made if there wasn't Jantzen?) 2) If I have these shirts de-constructed and re-tailored to fit me, would one of it likely be good enough to be used as a sample shirt for future Jantzen orders?

 

[Millerp]

Perhaps a silly question, but why not order shirts
from the tailor/shirtmaker who who you say will alter
the Jantzen shirts? A shirtmaker who can see you in person
and perhaps give you fittings, will likely fit you better than
an online source (even if you send a sample to copy).

 

[gregory]

Perhaps a silly question, but why not order shirts from the tailor/shirtmaker who who you say will alter the Jantzen shirts?

Not a silly question at all. The reason is simple, however:

 

[johnnynorman3]

Gregory, I think that obviously there is no such thing as a perfectly fitted shirt from an objective standpoint -- see A. Harris's little quote at the end of his posts -- but only from a subjective standpoint. The question is whether it is worth the time, energy, and money to get all the little details on your shirt right -- i.e. the yoke width. I mean, does that HAVE to be perfect? Do you even know what perfect yoke width is? I don't, and I doubt it is anything more than a subjective inquiry, hence your tailor pointing out a "flaw" in your shirt that you didn't see. The fact that you are altering your Jantzen shirts indicates that you are destroying one of the main purposes of Jantzen -- great price. If you are adding even 30 bucks of alterations (and that's not even beginning to add the cost of your time), well, all the sudden you are approaching the cost of a Borrelli shirt at Last Call, Ebay etc.

My advice would be to just remeasure for Jantzen for your next batch and to be happy with what you have now. That seems to make the most sense economically. In the meantime, know that when you choose Jantzen, maybe you won't get a perfect yoke width, but you will get an incredible choice of fabrics, collars, fits, etc. Are there things I'd change about my Jantzen shirts? Sure. But are they the best shirts I've ever had? Absolutely. Don't get obsessed with the diminishing marginal return that is perfection.

 

[gregory]

Do you even know what perfect yoke width is?  

Dear johnnynorman3,

I truly appreciate your advice, and my next question is an honest one (not meant to challenge you in any way) but isn't the perfect yoke width such that when the shirt is worn, the yoke will end right on the very edge of the shoulders?

Thanks,
gregory

 

[johnnynorman3]

So, you are talking about shoulder width. By yoke width, I assumed you were talking about the "up-down" measurement of the yoke, not the side to side measurement (which is more commonly referred to as shoulder width, at least to my knowledge).

I actually think there are a couple spots where it could "properly be." One spot is at the "soft part" of the shoulder joint. If you take your finget and feel your shoulder, you will notice that there is bone, and then it starts getting soft right at the top of the joint. The width could hit at that point. Some other people like it to hit AT the bone spot. This will give the appearance of a squarer shoulder and will expose more of the shoulder muscle (because the ENTIRE soft part of the shoulder will be outside of the seam). I personally like the former width -- the seam doesn't drift at all onto the shoulder muscle or the arm, but it has a more elegant look than the "bone" point, I think.

But see, the shoulder width is an incredibly easy measurement to fix. You can't be that far off as it is right now. Just be aware that when you change the shoulder width measurement, the sleeves may also fit slightly differently (I've found that if you reduce the shoulder width by .5 inches, you should add .25 inches to the sleeve to keep the same fit).