patent leather or black calf?

[Degendorff]

Hello,

At the end of January I'll go to a Ball at the Vienna Hofburg Imperial Palace and my problem is that my black patent shoes got seriously damaged (don't ask why, there is a big scratch at the toe cap) . Is it possible to wear my black calf oxfords with some special polish, or do I have to buy new patent leather shoes? I'll wear a dinner jacket as I do not have white tie, but black tie is accepted.

best regards

Degendorff

 

[grimslade]

I think highly shined black calf oxfords, if the are plan-toed or cap-toed (without broguing) would be fine.

 

[Manton]

I don't know what things are like in Vienna these days, but I always thought the Viennese were about the most fastidious people in the world when it came to formal wear. In New York, wearing a business shoe with a DJ will be noticed by maybe a dozen people in the whole city. In Vienna, I don't know. Traditionally, it is "incorrect." Will anyone notice or care? Well, you live there. You tell us!

 

[Teacher]

I do it (no broguing, of course), and I like the look. It's clean and smart, and I think the plain cap seam complements many of the other clean, straight lines dinner suits are designed with. That being said, some will not like it...but as manton wonders, "how many?"

 

[minimal]

If your shoes are plain-toe, sleek and in great condition, then I'd wear them polished to the max. If they were cap-toe or with any detail (such as broguing), I'd feel off about it.

And this does not sound like a run-of-the-mill event. Figure the new shoes in as part of the cost of the ticket...

 

[Degendorff]

@ Manton

You're right, Vienna is very traditional in these things.

Normally I wouldn't do it, but as a student I don't have the money for a new pair of shoes this month. I don't want to rent shoes and I don't want to buy low quality shoes. But I have to open the ball, so I wouldn't do it, if it is a "faux-pas". My black calf leather shoes are plain cap toes, no brogueings.

Do any of you have a hint, where to buy inexpensive shoes (sale etc.?). My old patent leather shoes were Crockett & Jones, which I really liked. Any possibility to get them below EUR 200?


@minimal

I do not have to pay the tickets, because I'll open the ball. But there will be about 2500-3000 guests.

 

[minimal]

Originally Posted by Degendorff

@minimal

I do not have to pay the tickets, because I'll open the ball. But there will be about 2500-3000 guests.

I only meant metaphorically, like "the cost of admission", "the cost of doing business", etc.

Wait, you'll *open* the ball? Is that like being the Master of Ceremonies? If so, you know what you have to do.

 

[Degendorff]

No, it's nothing like the master of ceremonies

. But I'm part of the starting polonaise, followed by a (Viennese) waltz.
I think that I will have to buy a new pair of patent leather shoes...

 

[NoVaguy]

Originally Posted by Degendorff

Do any of you have a hint, where to buy inexpensive shoes (sale etc.?). My old patent leather shoes were Crockett & Jones, which I really liked. Any possibility to get them below EUR 200?

http://www.shipton-usa.com/erol.html#2134X1272

USD 199, probably Alfred Sargent made. for some reason, the french and swiss sites don't have this, but the german site does for euro 199:

http://www.shipton.de/erol.html#532X1272

if you go to www.pediwear.co.uk, they have it for 120 GBP, or 102 without the VAT. They also have other shoes.

I have no experience with any of these brands, as my patent leather shoes are by Allen Edmonds.

 

[muelleran]

Does that mean you will be opening the Opernball and dancing with the debutantes?

Great, I'll watch you on TV!

If I were you I would avoid feeling odd because of the shoes and try to borrow the money from a relative, they should understand, after all it's an experience of a lifetime.

 

[Manton]

From that pic, it appears that more than half of the men are wearing vests longer than their coat's fronts. Scratch what I said about the fastidiousness of the Viennese. The chicks look cute, though.

 

[Degendorff]

No, it's not the Vienna Opera Ball, but the Wiener Korporationsball.

From what I read about white tie, it's common to wear it that way. Bernhard Roetzel quotes Fred Astaire, who said about the tailcoat (? what's the english word for "Frack"?) of the Prince of Wales: "The waistcoat did not show below the dress-coat front, I liked that." I like that, too, but it seems that the Prince of Wales was an exception and it was not uncommon to let the vest show below the coat.

Anyway, as "my" ball is not the opera ball, It's common to wear black tie and I know that most of the people wouldn't be interested in my shoes as long as they are black, but as muelleran says, it's something for a lifetime.

Scratch what I said about the fastidiousness of the Viennese.

During the Vienna Fasching there are about 300 balls with 220.000 people. I believe that there are hardly 220.000 sartorially interested people worldwide

. The pure existence of so much events of this type may already be fastidious!

I decided to buy new black patent leather shoes. My last shoes were Crockett & Jones and they fitted me very well. I think I paid about EUR 240 for them (seems to me, patent leather shoes are lower-priced then regular shoes. Are they goodyear-welted?) at retail. If I already buy these shoes, then it should not be a temporary solution. Anyone knows where I can get lower-priced C&J for about EUR 200 (~ USD 260)?

 

[Teacher]

Originally Posted by Degendorff

the tailcoat (? what's the english word for "Frack"?)

Yes, tailcoat (or "tails"). There is, however, the English word "frock coat," which is a very different garment, similar to the current business suit but with a much longer skirt.

During the Vienna Fasching there are about 300 balls with 220.000 people.

Good grief, 300 in Vienna?? Wow.

I decided to buy new black patent leather shoes. My last shoes were Crockett & Jones and they fitted me very well. I think I paid about EUR 240 for them (seems to me, patent leather shoes are lower-priced then regular shoes. Are they goodyear-welted?) at retail. If I already buy these shoes, then it should not be a temporary solution. Anyone knows where I can get lower-priced C&J for about EUR 200 (~ USD 260)?

If you can swing it, sounds good. Patent leather shoes tend to be lower in price because treating leather this way is quite a bit cheaper than treating fine box calf (etc.) for footwear. I can't speak to whether the C&J shoes are welted, but most of the others I've seen are, with exceptions.

 

[A Y]

It's possible the C&J formal shoe is glued instead of welted to reduce its bulk. Many formal shoes are built this way.

--Andre

 

[lawyerdad]

Originally Posted by Degendorff

No, it's not the Vienna Opera Ball, but the Wiener Korporationsball.

From what I read about white tie, it's common to wear it that way. Bernhard Roetzel quotes Fred Astaire, who said about the tailcoat (? what's the english word for "Frack"?) of the Prince of Wales: "The waistcoat did not show below the dress-coat front, I liked that." I like that, too, but it seems that the Prince of Wales was an exception and it was not uncommon to let the vest show below the coat.

Anyway, as "my" ball is not the opera ball, It's common to wear black tie and I know that most of the people wouldn't be interested in my shoes as long as they are black, but as muelleran says, it's something for a lifetime.


During the Vienna Fasching there are about 300 balls with 220.000 people. I believe that there are hardly 220.000 sartorially interested people worldwide

. The pure existence of so much events of this type may already be fastidious!

I decided to buy new black patent leather shoes. My last shoes were Crockett & Jones and they fitted me very well. I think I paid about EUR 240 for them (seems to me, patent leather shoes are lower-priced then regular shoes. Are they goodyear-welted?) at retail. If I already buy these shoes, then it should not be a temporary solution. Anyone knows where I can get lower-priced C&J for about EUR 200 (~ USD 260)?
Not to be culturally insensitive, but does the name "Wiener Korporationsball" sound as funny to Austrians as it does to Americans?