Pairing oxford shoes with chinos

[RSS]

@RSS you might enjoy this essay: https://www.orwellfoundation.com/th...-and-other-works/in-defence-of-p-g-wodehouse/

Very interesting essay. It might have helped if I'd read more Wodehouse ... but even so it's quite an informative read.

Now I hope this is not to suggest that by switching my "oxfords with chinos" answer from when hell freezes over to wearing the suede oxfords and derbies interchangeably that I'm playing easy with the enemy.

 

[smittycl]

Direct all music stuff here:

What music are you listening to lately?

Time after time, true colors, and songbird are my favorites from Eva.

www.styleforum.net

 

[Stylewords]

Yes! The only thing that could possibly make this thread worse is a debate about music. Please continue so I can just swear the thread off for good.

It wasn't me who brought it up. But anyway, discussions develop and if a thread isn't isn't busy being born, it's busy dying.

 

[ValidusLA]

Now I hope this is not to suggest that by switching my "oxfords with chinos" answer from when hell freezes over to wearing the suede oxfords and derbies interchangeably that I'm playing easy with the enemy.

I believe this falls under the Aid and Comfort statute. I'm sorry, but the penalty is death.

 

[RSS]

Forget oxfords and chinos. If you don't like Dylan, you have no taste and no soul.

The other night I put on some Beethoven. My spouse shared "I am not fond of this 'modern' music."

 

[ValidusLA]

The Budapester is really nice, but I take it to be a dressier shoe. What I liked about the Pembroke is exactly that it is quite rugged and rustic. It's an English country shoe, and given that it is quite different from most of what I wear, I really like the contrast.

The Pembroke also is really wonderfully resistant to everything. I've been caught in some serious downpours here in Illinois from thunderstorms, and my Pembrokes were like "lol, we're fine, don't worry. In fact, we'll look better once you're home". Excluding getting mud stuck in the dainite, they really don't take a beating from the weather at all.

I think derbys should also be recommended for grain leathers. Smooth box calf is more of an oxford thing for me.

The Pembroke in grain is definitly more rustic. I posted the Pembroke in calf vs the Budapester primarily because the last shapes are differently. The Budapester in P2 is a much more rounded, continental, countryfied shape to me.

I think on its own the Pembroke is more modern/aggressive in shape.

I think you are right that grain is more casual/rustic than the smooth calf Budapester. So in a way to me its somewhat a wash.

I think taking all things in, I would agree the grain Pembroke is more rustic than the calf Budapester, but I lean to thinking the Budapester in calf is more country than the Pembroke in calf by dint of shape.

(Talk about overthinking...wipes brow).

I mean, double monks were really popular for a time, so I don't think you can be faulted for falling into a trend that was literally everywhere. In fact, I consistently still see double monks out there in the world. Some of them still look nice.

I actually don't hate double monks as much as many on the forum do at this point. I own a pair of C+J Lowndes still.

I specifically was referring to my now donated AE Chili double monks. Very loud color on a loud shoe. Got rid of for a reason.

 

[JFWR]

The Pembroke in grain is definitly more rustic. I posted the Pembroke in calf vs the Budapester primarily because the last shapes are differently. The Budapester in P2 is a much more rounded, continental, countryfied shape to me.

I think on its own the Pembroke is more modern/aggressive in shape.

I think you are right that grain is more casual/rustic than the smooth calf Budapester. So in a way to me its somewhat a wash.

I think taking all things in, I would agree the grain Pembroke is more rustic than the calf Budapester, but I lean to thinking the Budapester in calf is more country than the Pembroke in calf by dint of shape.

(Talk about overthinking...wipes brow).



I actually don't hate double monks as much as many on the forum do at this point. I own a pair of C+J Lowndes still.

I specifically was referring to my now donated AE Chili double monks. Very loud color on a loud shoe. Got rid of for a reason.

I'd have to check out the last more thoroughly.

I am not seeing a gigantic difference in the lasts between:

Budapest * 3636 - Vass Shoes

Budapest * 3636 - The Budapest shoe is a famous derby model of clothing history and a sign of a specific Central European tradition. For classic gentlemen and also for those who have wider feet. The model has a masculine silhouette and fits well with casual wear also. The combination of the two...

vass-shoes.com

And

Pembroke Dark Brown Scotch Grain

Pembroke, our classic full brogue country-style derby shoe with wing tip design and punching detail. Made from the finest dark brown scotch country grain with Dainite rubber soles and a storm welt for added waterproof protection. From the Men's Main Collection.

us.crockettandjones.com

The main difference seems to be the depth of the shoe. The budapest is definitely more rounded from the side, but not by a substantial amount.

 

[ValidusLA]

I'd have to check out the last more thoroughly.

I am not seeing a gigantic difference in the lasts between:

Budapest * 3636 - Vass Shoes

Budapest * 3636 - The Budapest shoe is a famous derby model of clothing history and a sign of a specific Central European tradition. For classic gentlemen and also for those who have wider feet. The model has a masculine silhouette and fits well with casual wear also. The combination of the two...

vass-shoes.com

And

Pembroke Dark Brown Scotch Grain

Pembroke, our classic full brogue country-style derby shoe with wing tip design and punching detail. Made from the finest dark brown scotch country grain with Dainite rubber soles and a storm welt for added waterproof protection. From the Men's Main Collection.

us.crockettandjones.com

The main difference seems to be the depth of the shoe. The budapest is definitely more rounded from the side, but not by a substantial amount.

Thats the 3636! Even more rounded! The 3636 is so roomy that generally you have to size down.

Agree from the top they aren't that different. From the side the Vass lasts to me look more rounded, less tapered, and not as tall.

 

[VegasRebel]

I specifically was referring to my now donated AE Chili double monks. Very loud color on a loud shoe.

Wait, these? (Or something like them?)

ETA Link: https://www.allenedmonds.com/cyber-monday/st.-johns-double-monk-strap/2927-115-E.html

 

[TheChihuahua]

I think they're house slippers. In which case, they're more subdued than the kilim slippers that were popular back then (I confess I have a pair, bought as a laugh, though these days I mostly wear Friulian velvet slippers at home in the morning).

i think they are outdoor opera pumps/loafers? They aren’t advertised in the pajamas/slippers/robe section.

not that I like them, but thought it was funny when fashion forward shoes were being criticized as some new now thing but then saw those in The Bible.

 

[ValidusLA]

Wait, these? (Or something like them?)

ETA Link: https://www.allenedmonds.com/cyber-monday/st.-johns-double-monk-strap/2927-115-E.html

View attachment 1672218

That's them. They were even the nice ones before AE got sold and started making uppers in DR. But still not a fan of them now and would have been better wearing something else back when I wore them.

 

[VegasRebel]

That's them. They were even the nice ones before AE got sold and started making uppers in DR. But still not a fan of them now and would have been better wearing something else back when I wore them.

If those are "very loud," I do hope ranch doesn't burn your mouth too much.

(This has been a hostile thread - I mean this jokingly, I'm not taking an actual shot.)

 

[ValidusLA]

If those are "very loud," I do hope ranch doesn't burn your mouth too much.

(This has been a hostile thread - I mean this jokingly, I'm not taking an actual shot.)

I don't like ranch much. I am constantly astounded when I see people putting it on protein or pizza. Ranch is like the "bacon on everything" craze to me - a sign of the plumpening of America.

The St. John in person to me is quite loud. Double monk to begin with. Loud light brown "chili" color. Medallion on the toe. I would posit that a shoe like this:

Would be less loud.

I already know I'm committing sacrilege by still thinking double monks are ok shoes, ever, but the AE Chili one is really best left unworn.

 

[Riva]

I've lived in Southeast Asia for a decade and I don't think it ever was fiction nor will it become so. @Riva could comment if he were still around. Well, punkkah wallahs are gone I guess. And the quarter million bayonets is now a quarter trillion US dollars...

Alas freedom to tell people what they do not want to hear is fiction in this site.

 

[TheChihuahua]

Not meaning to come at you personally here, so please don't take it as such.

But I think this thread is illustrative of some of the points being made here.

JFWR is in the chinos w/ oxfords camp, and thinks that oxfords w/ jeans (in some situations) can work. Yet doesn't wear jeans.

Similarly, other vociferous posters on the thread who support oxfords w/ chinos, or jeans, have expressed generalizations that they prefer suits or don't wear denim.

I feel like the people who are generally against the look of chinos/denim w/ an oxford have much more exposure to denim/SWD in general.

I, for example, do operations for a private label denim company (I know, Chihuahua will be upset I'm neither a famous dead painter nor a wedding planner). We ship tens of thousands of jeans and chinos in 100's of sku's every week. I walk into our showrooms both in LA and NY and see what our designers are pairing with chinos and denim. Oxfords are just, not in the wheelhouse. Not even stylistically adjacent.

I also wear denim, mostly Japanese selvedge with a higher rise and thicker hand feel. I have left the Diesel abominations behind in my 20's (though I liked them quite a bit back then - live and learn).

I did chuckle a little bit at the part where you point out that not everyone in favor of the Oxford + chinos or jeans look even wears them. I would obvious fall I to that camp. And I actually don’t even think that they are a great (or even good) combination.

I just took humor in king troll making up rules, and claiming his superior training as his justification for why he is the rule making authority. The absolute “oxfords shall only be worn with suits” made up rule.
But there are so many good examples of oxfords with wool trousers and sports coats and such, both historically and modern, that such a made up rule is laughable. So I had some fun laughing at it.

I think it’s pretty simple in a soorts coat situation.
if you are trying to dress the sports coat look up, like that huntsman photo or some of simons’s examples, a pair of oxfords workgreat. As do sleeker derbies and loafers and even monk straps.
if you are trying to blend in more with a casual vibe, then maybe go with a more casual shoe.

but there is no rule against either. And both work fine. Also, each person has a different body shape and overall look, and the way the shoe style compliments each individual will be different.

it’s not complicated.