Pairing oxford shoes with chinos

[dieworkwear]

I think it's difficult to argue aesthetics because it's so subjective. I can only say that, if you value classic men's style as it was expressed from the 1930s to the '80s, then I don't think there's any place for these things.

There's no real place for blue suede oxfords, assuming you value that era of style (again, meaning tailored clothing from the 1930s to 80s, with the exclusion of the 70s). Blue suede oxfords just don't make any sense in that kind of historic style, as the color and style are inherent contradictions. Same with a lot of shoe styles I see on this board nowadays -- red oxfords, green derbies, blue and purple hippo boots.

It's true that these rules are antiquated and many people today wear clothes differently. I wouldn't argue otherwise. I don't really have a counter to that argument since part of the point is to reach back to those old eras of classic men's style for inspiration and direction.

Personally don't care for Strands + dress slacks + button down + no jacket or tie. If you happen to be in your office and you take off your jacket, fine. But if you value classic men's style from that era, then this combination doesn't make sense. You would struggle to find any example of men wearing clothes in this way.

This argument only flows if you value men's style from that period. I don't care for historical cosplay, but I think classic tailored clothing can be put together in ways that look modern without losing that old spirit.

Have no idea why people keep saying that they wear casual shoes with suits. I've made this point over and over again that there's a rich tradition of men wearing boots, loafers, and derbies with suits. But oxfords were traditionally kept to suits, and not worn with sport coats. Again, you can browse through Voxsartoria's website and Apparel Arts magazines to see what I mean.

 

[mak1277]

exactly.
The material and color of the shoe matter to most people. A dark or ccrdovan color is 'more formal', lighter browns, tans, blues less so.

And the notion that oxfords look bad with dress slacks and shirt is, IMO, a silly argument. I would agree when you get to cotton chinos, the number of oxford shoes that pair well is LESS but not zero. But, as with TheChihuahua, I disagree with the notion that oxfords can only be worn with a suit and tie - lots of them, and the Strand is a good example of a shoe that works very well with dress slacks, button down and no suit jacket or tie.

I like my Strands, but I'd never wear them without a jacket and tie.

 

[johng70]

I like my Strands, but I'd never wear them without a jacket and tie.

and that's your choice. Others choose a different path. You don't agree with that and nothing wrong with that. But your disagreement is simply your opinion, not a fact

 

[rjc149]

Sitting at my desk in wool dress slacks with black Allen Edmonds 5th Ave oxfords. With half my office still working from home, I bought myself some slacks to wear without the jacket this summer. Yeah I know brown derbies would fit the pants better, but, I'm not inclined to spend the money or endure the pain of breaking in another pair of AE's.

 

[mak1277]

Sitting at my desk in wool dress slacks with black Allen Edmonds 5th Ave oxfords. With half my office still working from home, I bought myself some slacks to wear without the jacket this summer. Yeah I know brown derbies would fit the pants better, but, I'm not inclined to spend the money or endure the pain of breaking in another pair of AE's.

View attachment 1625003

I think you've hit upon the real problem here...most people (myself included) don't have a large enough shoe wardrobe to wear the "right" thing every day. And that's fine. The problem comes when people try to argue that whatever they are wearing is "right", even when it's not the most optimal choice. Or when people feel bad that they spent money on a pair of walnut strands, so they fight back against the "rules" because they don't want to admit that their shoes don't really go with anything in a productive way.

Kudos to you for your admission, rather than trying to make an argument that your black oxfords are the best possible choice.

 

[johng70]

I think it's difficult to argue aesthetics because it's so subjective. I can only say that, if you value classic men's style as it was expressed from the 1930s to the '80s, then I don't think there's any place for these things.

Let's explore this: Here's a typical photo of a 1950s baseball game - men wore suits and fedoras or straw hats - not baseball caps. Do you wear a fedora every time you leave the house? Or have you adapted this traditional fashion 'rule' for your lifestyle?

 

[dieworkwear]

Let's explore this: Here's a typical photo of a 1950s baseball game - men wore suits and fedoras or straw hats - not baseball caps. Do you wear a fedora every time you leave the house? Or have you adapted this traditional fashion 'rule' for your lifestyle?

Your photo isn't showing, but I think you'll find my answer here:

I don't care for historical cosplay, but I think classic tailored clothing can be put together in ways that look modern without losing that old spirit.

 

[johng70]

forgot the picture

 

[johng70]

Your photo isn't showing, but I think you'll find my answer here:

I see - so, if you actually do it, it's a rule. If you don't follow it, it's cosplay. Makes sense

 

[dieworkwear]

I see - so, if you actually do it, it's a rule. If you don't follow it, it's cosplay. Makes sense

I'm not sure what you mean.

I don't like posting links to things I've written, but I assume most people here would appreciate me dropping this link instead of posting a billion photos in a thread. At the bottom of this post, you can see some photos. The photos are of tailored outfits I like. I think these outfits have some of that "spirit" of classic men's dress from yesteryear. They don't include fedoras, but I think they recall that old spirit.

My Tailoring Wish List — Die, Workwear!

A few weeks ago, Bruce Boyer emailed me a photo of his big day in Manhattan. He had just passed the two-week period after getting his second dose of the vaccine. Eager to get back to his normal life, Bruce took a trip to New York City — for the first time since March 2020 [...]Read More...

dieworkwear.com

Compare those outfits to the outfits posted on Allen Edmonds Instagram and social media

ALLEN EDMONDS | Making shoes for your life’s work since 1922 (@allenedmonds) • Instagram photos and videos

www.instagram.com

I think it would then just be a matter of preference: Which aesthetic do you like better? I think the photos at the end of my post are closer to that 1930s to 80s style (again, excluding the 70s). I think the looks on Allen Edmonds' Instagram look uniquely modern and not at all connected to that history.

 

[johng70]

I'm not sure what you mean.

I don't like posting links to things I've written, but I assume most people here would appreciate me dropping this link instead of posting a billion photos in a thread. At the bottom of this post, you can see some photos. The photos are of tailored outfits I like. I think these outfits have some of that "spirit" of classic men's dress from yesteryear. They don't include fedoras, but I think they recall that old spirit.

My Tailoring Wish List — Die, Workwear!

A few weeks ago, Bruce Boyer emailed me a photo of his big day in Manhattan. He had just passed the two-week period after getting his second dose of the vaccine. Eager to get back to his normal life, Bruce took a trip to New York City — for the first time since March 2020 [...]Read More...

dieworkwear.com

Compare those outfits to the outfits posted on Allen Edmonds Instagram and social media

ALLEN EDMONDS | Making shoes for your life’s work since 1922 (@allenedmonds) • Instagram photos and videos

www.instagram.com

I think it would then just be a matter of preference: do you want to dress in a way that I think better adheres to that 1930s to '80s way of dressing, or do you want to look like the people posted on Allen Edmonds' Instagram? I think you can do that old 1930s to 80s style without wearing a fedora.

and that's a perfectly understandable opinion. just like you can wear oxfords without a coat/tie. The difference is, you want to be the arbiter of what is in the spirit of appropriate style and what isn't. You decide one thing (oxfords must only be worn with suits) is fundamental to classic styling but wearing a hat is not.
I also find it amusing how much you state you "don't like posting links to things I've written' - but you do it rather frequently. Just a suggestion - either stick by your conviction that you don't like to post links to your blog or stop saying you don't like to do it.

 

[dieworkwear]

and that's a perfectly understandable opinion. just like you can wear oxfords without a coat/tie. The difference is, you want to be the arbiter of what is in the spirit of appropriate style and what isn't. You decide one thing (oxfords must only be worn with suits) is fundamental to classic styling but wearing a hat is not.

Again, it would be much easier to have this discussion if people posted examples of classic men's dress from that era that shows this combination they claim existed. Post a great number of them to show that this combination was frequently done, and not just done by some outlier dandy such as Tom Wolfe.

Do you have many photos of men from those eras wearing oxfords with sport coats? Or Apparel Arts scans? I'm not saying that I'm the arbiter of these things. I'm saying that I have not seen this combination when browsing those photos or reading those books. But if you have examples otherwise, I'm very much open to the idea.

Can you post these images? More than one or two examples, perhaps? I've already posted many photos in this thread showing the contrary.

If your examples are all modern and/ or you claim you want to wear a more modern styling, that's perfectly fine. Again, I agree that my stance is not modern.

By the way, I can certainly post examples of men from those eras not wearing a hat, if you want. If someone wants to dress like the men from those eras, a fedora is not necessary. Browse Vox's website. Most of the men shown there are not wearing hats.

voxsartoria

Their vanity is greater than their misery.

voxsartoria.com

 

[TheChihuahua]

Let's explore this: Here's a typical photo of a 1950s baseball game - men wore suits and fedoras or straw hats - not baseball caps. Do you wear a fedora every time you leave the house? Or have you adapted this traditional fashion 'rule' for your lifestyle?

hahahah

yeah, dude wants us to dress like some 1930’s cosplay outfit.

I don’t think the “Biz Caj Plus” look that he is advocating on his blog fits this era all that well either, so not sure what “rules” he thinks count amd which don’t. I know that the sports coat was a popular casual/weekend item, but the more recent phenomenon of transforming it into professional workplace doesn’t really fit into the 1930’s to 1950’s cosplay idea. So the whole notion of pushing a “Biz Caj Plus” outfit yet holding it to casual country weekend wear from the 1930’s seems silly.

seems to me like the “Biz Caj Plus” is somewhat of a hybrid between the country weekend wear of the 1930’a (sports coat, trousers, derbies or loafers) while being stepped up as a replacement for suits in the work place (hence dress it up with oxfords).

meaning: if you are going to subscribe to “Biz Caj Plus” you might be best off wearing oxfords to take it to a higher level of formality than casual weekend sports coat lion of the 1930’s and 50’s.

 

[dench127]

I don't get the anti-rules sentiment. Everyone has style/clothing ideas that they believe with enough conviction that they could functionally be called a rule. I think everyone here would agree that wearing Crocs with a suit is an awful look and should never be done.

There's too much arguing about whether rules exist (a semantic debate, they functionally do) and who has the authority to make the rules, and not enough discussion about what the rules actually say and what concepts inform them.

Seems like folks are butthurt someone told them the way they've been dressing isn't ideal and that they've invested too much money (and their personal style identity) in oxfords over loafers and derbies.

 

[TheChihuahua]

Do you have many photos of men from those eras wearing oxfords with sport coats? .

voxsartoria

Their vanity is greater than their misery.

voxsartoria.com

Well, the sports coat and trousers look from that era wasn’t really professional wear. It was more casual wear. So it would make sense that many of the pictures you have from that era have men in that type of ensemble making it less formal WITB casual shoes.

but with the sports coat becoming more a part of professional workwear, it would seem that it is more appropriate to dress it up a touch more than the weekend at church look. Oxfords help to do that. Make it mean more toward the “Biz” side than the “Caj” side whine at work.