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Pairing oxford shoes with chinos

Is it acceptable to pair oxfords with chinos?

  • Yes, anytime, anywhere.

    Votes: 31 25.2%
  • Whenever you've got that "chino + oxfords" feeling.

    Votes: 21 17.1%
  • In a pinch (other pants at the cleaners, traveling, Halloween costume...)

    Votes: 29 23.6%
  • No, except maaaybe in a life or death situation.

    Votes: 42 34.1%

  • Total voters
    123

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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OK, I will.


as a person of color, what i see are the WASPiest of white men, engaging in the most white-male privileged and exclusionary activities that I can think of.

Look at captions, and what they are doing:
country clubs, golfing, yachting, skiing, hunting, "english country squire", esquestrian

literally not a single POC in any of the thousands of Apparel Arts illustrations @dieworkwear worships.
The few women they show are all white and blonde, and serve only as trophies for the white men.

So I hope you will understand if I don't find it relevant.

If @dieworkwear thinks this country of full of white supremacists now, he might want to think a bit harder about the mentality of these folks he is glorifying.

If I saw anyone dressed like that today, I would assume they came out of the set of a period drama.

The dumbest thing is that quite a few of these illustrations still show oxfords being worn without suits !
Serious question, why do you follow me around on this board? Your entire posting history here is just you following me around to different threads, harassing me.

You said in an earlier post that you dislike my writing. So then why follow me around here for a year? Are you under a lockdown? Are you living through a once in a lifetime global pandemic that forces you to stay at home?

I put you on block after our last exchange, where I offered to pay for a member's fees to be nice, and you accused me of something nefarious. Seriously, just leave me alone. Or at least only make 1/10th of your posting history here about me.
 

FlyingMonkey

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@dieworkwear - is it time to give this up?

I just had a search around the forum for other discussions on this forum about this topic, you know, back when we are agreed that taste was better etc. etc. And guess what? In 2013, for example, the vast majority of people didn't agree with your take, one calling this "a very anglo-saxon UCBD principle" that isn't shared by other countries in Europe and elsewhere. And we see old and respected members like archibaldleach, Ambulance Chaser and JLibourel saying that saddle, suede, brogued and other less formal Oxfords (yes, I said less formal), are fine with sportcoat and odd trousers, and in some cases even with dark denim (ooh!). wurger, who probably knows more about captoe Oxfords than anyone else on this forum, and certainly owns more of them, was also in accord that "you can wear brown brogues with anything." Even that rottweiler of new members with stupid questions, GBR, said that Oxfords were not just for suits.

Check the discussion here: https://www.styleforum.net/threads/are-oxfords-only-for-suits.363004/

Now I don't like the aesthetic preferences of most of the people you are arguing with here, and frankly I think they have terrible taste, but you're going to have to accept that you are overly dogmatic and are in a very small minority on this question, which is, I would suggest, not even really a question worth asking let alone one that should have generated 70 pages of discussion, when the answer is simply 'yes' with qualifications as to what kinds of Oxfords are more or less appropriate.
 

FlyingHorker

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@mozi

Interesting. I can see now why one wouldn't find it relevant.

I'm brown, but I usually don't interpret those illustrations literally, only as a source of style inspiration for myself. Same goes for actual people like the Duke of Windsor, who I read was a Nazi sympathizer.

I take the useful bits, reinterpret it for myself, and discard the rest.

Example: The cut, button stance, shape, and/or pattern of an overcoat.
 

dieworkwear

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@mozi

Interesting. I can see now why one wouldn't find it relevant.

I'm brown, but I usually don't interpret those illustrations literally, only as a source of style inspiration for myself. Same goes for actual people like the Duke of Windsor, who I read was a Nazi sympathizer.

I take the useful bits, reinterpret it for myself, and discard the rest.

Example: The cut, button stance, shape, and/or pattern of an overcoat.
His comment is not serious. It's tongue in cheek. He has the opposite politics and likes to take the most extreme version of my politics to lampoon me. I care about ethnic minority rights, so apparently I can't like how white people dressed in the 1950s.
 

ValidusLA

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Serious question, why do you follow me around on this board? Your entire posting history here is just you following me around to different threads, harassing me.

You said in an earlier post that you dislike my writing. So then why follow me around here for a year? Are you under a lockdown? Are you living through a once in a lifetime global pandemic that forces you to stay at home?

I put you on block after our last exchange, where I offered to pay for a member's fees to be nice, and you accused me of something nefarious. Seriously, just leave me alone. Or at least only make 1/10th of your posting history here about me.
It's like punching the big dog on your first day of prison or something.
 

FlyingHorker

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His comment is not serious. It's tongue in cheek. He has the opposite politics and likes to take the most extreme version of my politics to lampoon me. I care about ethnic minority rights, so apparently I can't like how white people dressed in the 1950s.
Woops, I was definitely confused by his comment initially, I did think he was serious.
 

mozi

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Serious question, why do you follow me around on this board? Your entire posting history here is just you following me around to different threads, harassing me.

You said in an earlier post that you dislike my writing. So then why follow me around here for a year? Are you under a lockdown? Are you living through a once in a lifetime global pandemic that forces you to stay at home?

I put you on block after our last exchange, where I offered to pay for a member's fees to be nice, and you accused me of something nefarious. Seriously, just leave me alone. Or at least only make 1/10th of your posting history here about me.
If you have me on block, I don't know how you saw this message. Feel free to keep blocking me.

Not at all my posts are involve you, and they are all public.
To the extent a significant fraction do involve you, it might possibly be because you post way more frequently and get mired in way more controversy than 99% of members on this forum.

A saying comes to mind: "If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, maybe you're the asshole."

And actually, I have said before I enjoyed your published blog writing, which is less strident, repetitive, and thin-skinned than your Styleforum persona.
 

mozi

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Woops, I was definitely confused by his comment initially, I did think he was serious.
I don't know why anyone gets to say what my politics are.

my comments were quite serious. In fact, I just stated objective features of these illustrations.

Just because I don't agree with @dww's politics in every aspect, it doesn't mean I can't view these photos as actually very exclusionist. I'm a registered Democrat, but just because I'm not a socialist doesn't I have to be a white supremacist.
 

FlyingHorker

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I had another guy who, for three years, hated my politics and just sent me emails every month about how much he hated my last post. Literally went on for three years.


View attachment 1670279
From a forum meme perspective, this is hilarious.

From a personal and reality based perspective, it's kinda disturbing.
I don't know why anyone gets to say what my politics are.

my comments were quite serious. In fact, I just stated objective features of these illustrations.

Just because I don't agree with @dww's politics in every aspect, it doesn't mean I can't view these photos as actually very exclusionist. I'm a registered Democrat, but just because I'm not a socialist doesn't I have to be a white supremacist.
Oh ok, then we simply view the AA drawings differently. I do understand your viewpoint in feeling they're exclusionary though.
 

acapaca

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There's no way to support an argument if people don't share a premise. If I say that lasagna is good, and you think lasagna is bad, then there's no reason for you to follow my lasagna recipe. I can't "prove" to you that lasagna tastes good.

People have posted many photos showing the "other side." I think many of those photos look terrible. You think the photos I've posted are terrible. So there's no way I can "support" my argument, as we don't agree on aesthetics.
Which photos do I think are terrible? The Sean Connery one I criticized was one that I posted. I think most of yours are very nice, many quite elegant, even aspirational. The rest are not what I would at all call bad, but more along the lines of unimaginative.

It's not so much that we don't agree on aesthetics. It's that yours are so narrow that they represent but a subset of mine. I love lasagna. But I'd probably get sick of it if I had to eat it every day. There are lots of other wonderful foods too. (And some are even better than lasagna!)

Neighborhoods are more interesting, more diverse and vibrant, when they have a range of restaurants. Even when not everyone likes all the cuisines.
 

TheChihuahua

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Notably, Florsheim only had two oxfords in full brogues, no half-brogues, in their 1969 catalogue.


Alden early 80s catalogue had some brogued oxfords, but it was very much on the "truebalance" side of things then.


A number of brogued oxfords by Crockett and Jones, looking to be from pretty early on.

So yes, the brogued oxford has a fairly robust pedigree.
but…..
Those don’t count!!!

Or….
Those manufacturers don’t represent CM and are in poor taste…

I jumped in before somebody else could…
Obviously I don’t agree with what I just wrote. Making fun of those who will respond that way.
 

TheChihuahua

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There's no way to support an argument if people don't share a premise. If I say that lasagna is good, and you think lasagna is bad, then there's no reason for you to follow my lasagna recipe. I can't "prove" to you that lasagna tastes good.

People have posted many photos showing the "other side." I think many of those photos look terrible. You think the photos I've posted are terrible. So there's no way I can "support" my argument, as we don't agree on aesthetics.
but your argument is not about what looks good or bad.
Your argument is that there is some sort of “rule” that everyone should dress the way you think looks good.

for example:
I personally do not wear oxfords with chinos. I have said that many times.
but I know there is no rule against that. It’s not like wearing white athletic socks with leather shoes or a belt at the same time as suspenders.

it’s an aesthetic preference that you have.
it is not a rule, nor has it ever been.
 

JFWR

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but…..
Those don’t count!!!

Or….
Those manufacturers don’t represent CM and are in poor taste…

I jumped in before somebody else could…
Obviously I don’t agree with what I just wrote. Making fun of those who will respond that way.
I detected the sarcasm.

I think what this shows is the style has been around for a long, long time.

Plus, aesthetically, this shows that the formality of the Oxford pairs just fine with the relative informality of the brogue.

In Some Like it Hot, the gangster (who is notoriously dandy about his dress) wears spectator half brogues. This is definitely a historically acceptable style.

I think the greater question to ask is which styles of shoe pair better with certain decoration.

For instance, I'd say the cap toe, half brogue, and quarter brogue all go best with the Oxford.

The plain toe and long wing belong to the blucher.

The Oxford and derby share full brogue aesthetics, with the derby being better in rugged varieties thereof, and the Oxford in finer and spectator varieties.

With those combinations in mind, the question would be how to pair the shoe to the outfit. Sometimes, that works great with chinos dressed up, other times it's a suit or tuxedo, other times it's corduroy or wool trousers.

I will grant that I think oxfords need a jacket to go with them, but generally all dress shoes look better with jackets.
 

ValidusLA

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In Some Like it Hot, the gangster (who is notoriously dandy about his dress) wears spectator half brogues. This is definitely a historically acceptable style.
Pretty sure Spats Columbo was wearing spats, not spectators. It's even in the name.
MovieRiffing-SomeLikeItHot-SceneAnalysis-5-MovieRiffing.png

Also the half brogue oxford is often credited to Lobb in the 30's. Maybe @dieworkwear or someone with better shoe history knowledge could let me know of that's true or not. SLIH is set during prohibition in the 20s, hence the entire setup of Spats in the speakeasy.
 
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