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Pairing oxford shoes with chinos

acapaca

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Okay, thanks, that does help to clarify. I am admittedly far less interested myself in a discussion about whether it's worth trying to mimic, at that level of specificity, the dress of such a narrow slice of society. I was more interested when I thought we were talking about norms that applied more broadly, and in particular their underlying causes or motives.
 

emptym

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...You asked for pictures (and even provided some yourself), so I gave you one.
Now the argument is you do not like the look, so therefor it doesn’t count?...
I'd say it counts. But I'd apply the same idea you mentioned re. white socks with leather shoes: It was an exception to the rule and done in poor taste.
 

TheChihuahua

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I go to work in a worsted suit with black Oxfords or loafers, like every other man in my office, as it is the required dress code in London in my profession, as it has been since the 1950s.
yoi don’t wear a sports coat and derbies to the office?

I'd say it counts. But I'd apply the same idea you mentioned re. socks with leather shoes: It was an exception to the rule and done in poor taste.
Ha.
well those pictures don’t count….. argument.
Whatever, keep moving goalposts. Dude asked for pictures. Took a minute to find one. I’m not going to create a library of 1930’s to 1950’s drawings of guys so I can create fake rules and cosplay to present myself like an English gentleman in a country retreat.

and the athletic socks with leather shoes, as I’ve acknowledged has been done. But even you stated it was more ivy Style. But int the very definition of ivy style an intentionally breaking of more classical norms around the1960’s into the 1970’s. The preppy version of hippies expanding their boundaries? An American version of Sprezzatora. And while I think it’s a horrible look (the idea of a gym sock worn with a leather just seems gross, is the guy working out or going for a jog and working up a sweat so he needs gym socks? What does that do to the shoe inner? Ewwww), and while it is a product of an American revolution of Sprezzatora known as ivy style, whatever I’m not going to go issuing citations to problem for breaking the rules.

I will agree that sports coats were generally not worn in urban professional environments back in that time, they were more recreational and leisure items, thus derbies and casual loafers are more common. But while sports coats have made their way into the more urban and professional environments, the nicer shoes should still be worn. Dress up the country outfit, don’t dress it down. Leave the derbies for the weekend.

I would disagree that this applies to blazers. Navy blazer, especially double breasted, are not the same as a sports coat in terms of utility, and oxfords or loafers should definitely be worn with such (or dressier derbies)

this whole fake rule thing reminds me of people who say a notch lapel tuxedo is not actually a tuxedo. One can have a preference for peak ir shawl lapels, but then other igents make a claim that notch isn’t even a tuxedo.
then People point to celebrities wearing notch, and the igents say “those are only celebrities, they don’t know…”
Then people point to heads of states wearing notch, and the igent fake rules makers say, “what do politicians know about rules?”
Then people point to English royalty wearing notch, same response.
then people point to wealthy businessmen and socialites in notch, and the same response.
then people post pictures/drawings of old notch lapel tuxedos, and we get the “those drawings are just exceptions done in poor taste…”

the igent fake rules makers really think they are some sort of authority and always stand by their fake rules.
 
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Panama

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I go to work in a worsted suit with black Oxfords or loafers, like every other man in my office, as it is the required dress code in London in my profession, as it has been since the 1950s.
So not golden age "norms" then, but post war austerity.....
 

soto_nw

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I have to say how much I appreciate the discussion between @acapaca and @dieworkwear

I'll say that in part because I know where the "norms/rules" derived from that though I admire "classic menswear" (CM) and draw inspiration from it, I don't always "follow" it. Part of me feels like if I follow it too much (or too automatically), AND try to convince people that they should too feels like enforcing those class norms and needlessly excluding them because some wealthy white men decided long ago "what looks good." It's a fine line between educating folks about those norms, and saying they're the only right way to do it.

Certainly one can still be inspired by CM without "doing what they did." In other words it seems odd to me to imply that an outfit with oxfords with trousers sans jacket (it seems like @dieworkwear is perfectly fine with oxfords+suit, and maybe just ok with oxfords+sports coat+tie - please correct me if I'm wrong), is NOT CM inspired, or that the only CM inspired way to wear oxfords is to do so with a full suit or jacket. It's sort of like saying that Reggaeton is not inspired by West Indian beats and music because it sounds completely different and uses crude lyrics. It would seem a bit silly, being inspired by something doesn't mean obeying ALL the norms, or even most of the norms, necessarily.

I'd be curious to see how people feel about this, but I wore a denim shirt (one of the denim shirts from Permanent Style) with a navy suit, tie, and black oxfords today - would that be considered CM/CM inspired or not? I'd say not, because of the denim shirt, but I can see people argue otherwise. All that to say, it's kind of all a bit silly.

@dieworkwear doesn't find oxfords suitable without a jacket and tie, and that's ok, as he said he likes to adhere a bit closer the CM norms. I, and others, like to be a touch more modern (or at least think there are times where things work outside of the norms or rules). I will admit, I think my style of dress is a bit more modern with inspiration from CM, rather than the other way around.....but that's kind of the point, we all find what works best for us. I like wearing suits and ties/sports coats and ties (and have to for work), but I also like jeans and a t-shirt, or linen trousers+polo, and everything in between (plus some mash-ups). AND frankly, hearing what others are saying can help inspire new looks. I know some of my outfits don't work, but it's all about experimentation and finding what works for you. Certainly, the old norms are helpful, but I see them as initial boundaries (or if one looks at one's style as a building, the norms are the first draft of the blueprint, they set the base, but one may add or subtract as necessary).

All that said, I think we can all agree that oxfords and jeans would be an ill-advised look in many instances (hell, I know I even feel a bit weird with leather derbies - not that I own many - and jeans - that's just a me thing.).
 

Loathing

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So not golden age "norms" then, but post war austerity.....
Everyone here has been referring to the golden age as from about the 1930s to 1980s (give or take, as it died out gradually) so I don’t know why you think 1950s doesn’t fall within the period.

As it happens, the late 1950s is when the lounge suit became normal for professionals working in the City of London. Before then, people wore what was called a stroller or “black lounge suit”, which is closer to morning dress. The standard lounge suit was still worn in England by the 1930s, but not to work in a professional setting.
 
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Panama

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Everyone here has been referring to the golden age as from about the 1930s to 1980s (give or take, as it died out gradually) so I don’t know why you think 1950s doesn’t fall within the period.

As it happens, the late 1950s is when the lounge suit became normal for professionals working in the City of London. Before then, people wore what was called a stroller or “black lounge suit”, which is closer to morning dress. The standard lounge suit was still worn in England by the 1930s, but not to work in a professional setting.
Everyone? One person, is he your God?
Anyway how can post war austerity be a part of the golden age? The word austerity gives it away. Please post another feeble response not answering the original question...
 

Loathing

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Everyone? One person, is he your God?
Anyway how can post war austerity be a part of the golden age? The word austerity gives it away. Please post another feeble response not answering the original question...
What are you talking about, honestly? Classic menswear wasn’t invented by DWW. Where has this gibberish about post-war austerity come from? What question am I not answering? You asked what I wear to the office and I gave the answer. You made a snide remark about why I don’t wear a top hat or something, which I ignored because it was a ridiculous, snide comment and I don’t tend to respond to that kind of thing, funnily enough.

The same dress code has applied for working in the main professions in the City of London since the 1950s and the code still applies today. It has nothing whatsoever to do with austerity — the late 1950s were a booming period in the UK’s economy, the war had ended over a decade previously, and the dress code has stayed essentially the same through every cycle in the last 70 years.

D2D3216F-8DEF-4523-B499-59D6AD135526.jpeg


You’re just coming across as both very stupid and snide, which is a terrible combination.
 

Panama

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What are you talking about, honestly? Classic menswear wasn’t invented by DWW. Where has this gibberish about post-war austerity come from? What question am I not answering? You asked what I wear to the office and I gave the answer. You made a snide remark about why I don’t wear a top hat or something, which I ignored because it was a ridiculous, snide comment and I don’t tend to respond to that kind of thing, funnily enough.

The same dress code has applied for working in the main professions in the City of London since the 1950s and the code still applies today. It has nothing whatsoever to do with austerity — the late 1950s were a booming period in the UK’s economy, the war had ended over a decade previously, and the dress code has stayed essentially the same through every cycle in the last 70 years.

View attachment 1626711

You’re just coming acrosHows as both very stupid and snide, which is a terrible combination.
How can a golden age encompass a great depression, a war, post war austerity and the swinging sixties?

You said you followed the "norms" of the golden era, then stated you followed 1950's uniform that hasn't changed. Everything has changed, are you really dressing up in Mad Men cosplay?
 
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Panama

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What are you talking about, honestly? Classic menswear wasn’t invented by DWW. Where has this gibberish about post-war austerity come from? What question am I not answering? You asked what I wear to the office and I gave the answer. You made a snide remark about why I don’t wear a top hat or something, which I ignored because it was a ridiculous, snide comment and I don’t tend to respond to that kind of thing, funnily enough.

The same dress code has applied for working in the main professions in the City of London since the 1950s and the code still applies today. It has nothing whatsoever to do with austerity — the late 1950s were a booming period in the UK’s economy, the war had ended over a decade previously, and the dress code has stayed essentially the same through every cycle in the last 70 years.

View attachment 1626711

You’re just coming across as both very stupid and snide, which is a terrible combination.
How many "norms" do you follow?

Do you change into black tie for the evening?
Do you wear a fair isle jumper with plus fours at the weekend?
Do you have side tabs rather than belt loops on your trousers?
Do you wear a bowler hat to work?
Do you wear a polyester suit and shirt?
This is probably a maybe to go with your loafers...

0403020010087-catalog-listing-for-mens-brooksweave-shirts-1953.jpg
 

Panama

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I am thinking of getting these blue suede Oxfords, they should go well with a pair of Chinos or Cords....


GIOVEOXFO_BLUSUEL_05.jpg
 

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