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Pairing oxford shoes with chinos

Rbpp

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Well, then you are illustrating that the distinction is either artificial or simply one of associations.
Yes, but I'd say that's the case for most of the things we are discussing here on styleforum (with the exception of color association and fit to some extent).
 

rjc149

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In all practicality, the formality distinction between oxford and derby is pretty antiquated.

Black derby dress shoes polished to a mirror sheen are absolutely appropriate with a business suit in even the most conservative environments. So are black wingtips and brogues, in either closed or open lace configuration.

Brown shoes are inherently more casual, so the distinction between oxford and derby is even more moot. If comfortable and liked by their owner, they should be worn whenever the owner pleases. They are not out of place with jeans, chinos, slacks, or a suit enough to be offensive.

My only eye-raiser is wearing black oxford dress shoes with jeans or chinos. That's akin to wearing basketball sneakers with a suit. I mean yeah, people do it.
 

Duke Santos

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In all practicality, the formality distinction between oxford and derby is pretty antiquated.

Black derby dress shoes polished to a mirror sheen are absolutely appropriate with a business suit in even the most conservative environments. So are black wingtips and brogues, in either closed or open lace configuration.

Brown shoes are inherently more casual, so the distinction between oxford and derby is even more moot. If comfortable and liked by their owner, they should be worn whenever the owner pleases. They are not out of place with jeans, chinos, slacks, or a suit enough to be offensive.

My only eye-raiser is wearing black oxford dress shoes with jeans or chinos. That's akin to wearing basketball sneakers with a suit. I mean yeah, people do it.
Spot on. I've worn some highly polished (though not a pure mirror shine) pair of plain toe bluchers recently with both grey and navy suits, and nobody batted an eye. They looked perfectly appropriate. And a couple of days later, I can dress those exact same shoes down to dark denim or anything in between. I've really come around to the idea that a nice pair of black ptb are the one shoe wardrobe choice.

Suede oxfords with denim works OK for me. Anything in calf or shell is a no fly zone though.
 

Sir Jack II

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I certainly don't mean to come down on anyone’s style choices, and I understand the resistance to being hemmed in by previous generations’ choices.

But I’ve increasingly felt that I was really pushing it whenever I wore oxfords outside of a suit; I’d have this vague sense of unease about it. DWW’s posts in this thread kind of put my unease into words (or, I guess, crystallized my thinking on the subject).

I don’t think you'll necessarily look “bad” if you wear oxfords outside of a suit, but I've personally come to feel more in tune by not doing so. PTBs and derbies generally fit my style (such as it is) and certainly my wardrobe much better. (And as a corollary I thought maybe this is why men for generations have tended to reserve oxfords for suits.)
 
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acapaca

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(And I’ve had the corollary thought that maybe this is why men for generations have tended to reserve oxfords for suits.)
But what do you with the reality that men today don't wear suits in anywhere near the same way that they did generations ago (or even one)?
 

rjc149

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Spot on. I've worn some highly polished (though not a pure mirror shine)
“Mirror shine” being the hyperbole used to emphasize that dirty, scuffed shoes lower the formality regardless of the shoe.

I’ve seen men wearing polished black chukka boots with suits. It’s a bit bold for my personal business wardrobe, and I certainly noticed, but it worked fine and I take those particular gentlemen no less seriously.
 

Duke Santos

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“Mirror shine” being the hyperbole used to emphasize that dirty, scuffed shoes lower the formality regardless of the shoe.

I’ve seen men wearing polished black chukka boots with suits. It’s a bit bold for my personal business wardrobe, and I certainly noticed, but it worked fine and I take those particular gentlemen no less seriously.
The Tetbury's play!

 

johng70

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But I’ve increasingly felt that I was really pushing it whenever I wore oxfords outside of a suit; I’d have this vague sense of unease about it. DWW’s posts in this thread kind of put my unease into words (or, I guess, crystallized my thinking on the subject).
And that's the beautiful thing about choice. You don't feel comfortable doing it, so you don't have to. Other people feel perfectly comfortable doing it so they do. It should be pretty evident by now that the two camps are going to continue to disagree on the topic. In something that would surely cause people here to turn their noses up and harumph, I wore my alden long-wings with a grey suit a month ago - and received a couple compliments. Poor, uninformed fools - too ignorant to know I was wearing an in-formal shoe with a suit and tie. Hopefully they will educate themselves and look down on the next fool to make such a mistake :)
 

TheChihuahua

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Was wearing a suit yesterday, but hit the range for a quick bucket and when I put the suit on for an evening meeting I didn’t bother to put my tie back on. I thought about going home and grabbing a pair of derbies so I could be sure to follow some made up igent internet rule (Oxfords only with suits, and the suit must have a tie (don’t forget that part)).

but I said whatever, I will be like Picasso and break the rules!! I thought it looked solid, and nobody pointed out to me that I was in violation of some made up igent rule.

sure, I could have dumbed the outfit down with a pair of orthopedic shoes, but why do that? What a stupid igent rule (actually, fake made up rule, but still ridiculous)
 

BPL Esq

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I think even the diehard 'oxfords only with suits' crowd in this thread already acknowledged that changing shoes when you leave work and remove your tie for a night out is unnecessary.

I'm still not sure if the 'orthopedic shoes' thing is just a joke, but I'm curious if you believe that open lacing converts an oxford into a medical device and how you reconcile that with the apparent POV that oxfords and derbies are more or less interchangeable.
 

TheChihuahua

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I think even the diehard 'oxfords only with suits' crowd in this thread already acknowledged that changing shoes when you leave work and remove your tie for a night out is unnecessary.

I'm still not sure if the 'orthopedic shoes' thing is just a joke, but I'm curious if you believe that open lacing converts an oxford into a medical device and how you reconcile that with the apparent POV that oxfords and derbies are more or less interchangeable.
nope. Rules are rules. DWW even said, suit without a tie cannot have oxfords.

I don’t mind derbies, but they tend to be a bit less formal (and some are outright ugly/clunky). I actually own some derbies.While wearing a derby with dress pants and a sports coat is plenty fine, this “rule” that it is required is kind of silly given that the derby really tends to dress down the look (not always, but often) while an Oxford can keep the look at a higher level.

i do think that a lot of derbies and oxfords are interchangeable. Especially with suits, derbies are usually fine.

But with the “Biz Caj Plus” look (sport coat with dress pants) I would be a bit more cautious with derbies. One dressing “Biz Caj Plus” is already flirting with informality where a derby might really bring that look down to Sunday brunch followed by church rather than a more professional or higher end setting. “Biz Caj Plus” is ok, I’m not knocking that style, but how you compliment that look with options like with or without a tie or use of pocket square or shoe type goes a long way in determining how much “biz” versus “caj” the look promotes.

and this is just my opinion. I’m not an igent trying to make rules. If one is in an environment wear oxfords make their Biz Caj plus outfit too formal, by all means, dress it down a bit. In my opinion it’s better to try to dress up that Biz Caj Plus look with oxfords or a dressier pair of derbies or a dressier pair of loafers than a less formal derby.

and yes, the orthopedic comment is a bit tongue in cheek. But at the same time, the reason for open lacing is for people whose feet swell after a lot of walking, so while I am saying it a bit tongue in cheek the evolution of the derby was based on orthopedic/medical issues moreso than style. So it’s not actually that far off base.
 

mak1277

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I don't think anyone in this thread has said you must wear oxfords if you're wearing a suit.

As far as oxfords with chinos....why? They look stupid with chinos. Just go look at the Allen Edmonds thread and see how many terrible Strand+rumpled chinos pairings there are. Gross. Loafers, boots, long wing bluchers, PTBs...all look better with chinos that oxfords do. So even if you think it's stupid to have a "rule" banning oxfords with chinos, you should still not wear oxfords with chinos because you have a sense of style.
 

TheChihuahua

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I don't think anyone in this thread has said you must wear oxfords if you're wearing a suit.
correct

the made up igent rule that is worthy of ridicule is: Oxfords may ONLY be worn with a suit (and you must have a tie).

I tend to agree that most oxfords don’t go well with cotton chino pants (although there are some that look nice). It’s the rule that oxfords have only one purpose: suits (while wearing a tie) that is laughable.
 

johng70

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correct

the made up igent rule that is worthy of ridicule is: Oxfords may ONLY be worn with a suit (and you must have a tie).

I tend to agree that most oxfords don’t go well with cotton chino pants (although there are some that look nice). It’s the rule that oxfords have only one purpose: suits (while wearing a tie) that is laughable.
exactly.
The material and color of the shoe matter to most people. A dark or ccrdovan color is 'more formal', lighter browns, tans, blues less so.

And the notion that oxfords look bad with dress slacks and shirt is, IMO, a silly argument. I would agree when you get to cotton chinos, the number of oxford shoes that pair well is LESS but not zero. But, as with TheChihuahua, I disagree with the notion that oxfords can only be worn with a suit and tie - lots of them, and the Strand is a good example of a shoe that works very well with dress slacks, button down and no suit jacket or tie.
 

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