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Pairing oxford shoes with chinos

dench127

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here is the problem with this position:
For cotton khakis and whatever, sure, most oxfords are too dressy.

but for that more “biz caj +” look that other advocate (smart casual, sports coat, suit with no tie look), well...

1. Loafers are great. And some loafers dress up very nicely. But if all you wear are loafers, you become loafers guy. Which can be viewed as a bit too caj for it to be one’s every day thing.

2. Chukka boots are very location/geographic/season driven. Not going to wear chukka boots in the middle of the summer or warmer weather climates.

3. If you wear derbies all the time, people are going to think you have foot problems. Like you are one step away from orthopedic shoes. a general reaction will be:
“He dresses well, but too bad he has that foot problem so he has to wear those ugly shoes”

as an opinion, oxfords generally work well with suits. But as a rule, oxfords can also dress up those “Biz Caj Plus” looks and take them from a sort of uninspired/lazy look and dress the entire outfit up to a more professional/respectable look.
Not sure what kind of derbies you’re looking at. I’ve got an addiction for split toe derbies.
2E099F5F-D28F-4A63-BE1E-46B5D070DE29.jpeg
EG Dover on 606
76074F89-E05C-4964-BF3F-63C7E271542C.jpeg
JM Weston Half-Hunt (not that popular in the US)
BCA50E59-8EEB-431F-BBEE-C0A87EA13A37.jpeg
EG Dover on 888, about as formal of a derby as you can get.

10E09DEB-3A70-425F-85C1-A00BBBAD6794.jpeg
CJ Pembroke, a really rustic shoe imo
367D07CB-4151-41B1-BEFE-06C8034B4AEC.jpeg
Alden longwings, I think it’s a classic look.
None of these seem orthopedic to
F7617E79-2A7D-46A2-A59E-24FCC450E2E2.jpeg
Another Dover for good measure (shoes are a bit sharp for the denim, but I just really wanted to wear them)

CJ and Alden pics aren’t mine
 
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TheChihuahua

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Not sure what kind of derbies you’re looking at. I’ve got an addiction for split toe derbies.
View attachment 1617686
EG Dover on 606
View attachment 1617688
JM Weston Half-Hunt (not that popular in the US)
View attachment 1617691
EG Dover on 888, about as formal of a derby as you can get.

View attachment 1617693
CJ Pembroke, a really rustic shoe imo
View attachment 1617697
Alden longwings, I think it’s a classic look.
None of these seem orthopedic to
View attachment 1617702
another Dover for good measure

CJ and Alden pics aren’t mine
split toe derbies can look good. Other derbies can look good too.
But if you are going for that biz caj plus look, derbies really dress down the look a bit much, and often derbies can make people think you have foot problems because you need soecial orthopedic shoes.

not bad towear derbies now and then to dress down some outfits, but be careful overdoing the derby thing.

for what it’s worth I think the Allen Edmonds delray and the Crockett and Jones Hardwick and similar offerings are very nice
 
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TheChihuahua

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Take these two pictures of biz caj plus attire.
Clearly the Oxford is the better look. The derby isn’t bad, but it really makes the look very caj and might make people think he has foot issues. The Oxford is outstanding

7855A14C-36D3-4FD5-9B88-8B2B05ED1057.jpeg

236D783C-E885-4F9A-AEF0-6CE2ED8E476B.jpeg

(Note: the biz caj + comment is somewhat tongue in cheek, but the point still stands that the oxfords make the outfit better)
 
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TheChihuahua

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These brown weave strands would look great with a nice caj outfit.
Off white linen pants. Jeans. Faded/worn cotton pants.
whoooooooo

84576DBD-5EE2-486D-A785-735F62580E8A.jpeg
 

Bacharini

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2. Chukka boots are very location/geographic/season driven. Not going to wear chukka boots in the middle of the summer or warmer weather climates.
I am never going to wear desert boots in the desert, just wanted to let you all know. 🤣 🤣🤣
 

Loathing

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here is the problem with this position:
For cotton khakis and whatever, sure, most oxfords are too dressy.

but for that more “biz caj +” look that other advocate (smart casual, sports coat, suit with no tie look), well...

1. Loafers are great. And some loafers dress up very nicely. But if all you wear are loafers, you become loafers guy. Which can be viewed as a bit too caj for it to be one’s every day thing.

2. Chukka boots are very location/geographic/season driven. Not going to wear chukka boots in the middle of the summer or warmer weather climates.

3. If you wear derbies all the time, people are going to think you have foot problems. Like you are one step away from orthopedic shoes. a general reaction will be:
“He dresses well, but too bad he has that foot problem so he has to wear those ugly shoes”

as an opinion, oxfords generally work well with suits. But as a rule, oxfords can also dress up those “Biz Caj Plus” looks and take them from a sort of uninspired/lazy look and dress the entire outfit up to a more professional/respectable look.
I’m not sure where you get the idea of derbies/bluchers being orthopaedic shoes. But I agree with you and disagree with DWW that derbies are not the right choice for a more formal tailored jacked and odd trousers combination. A navy blazer with a texture that is close to suiting is too formal to work well with derbies in my view, and Oxfords/loafers are the right choice, as per the Mark Cho video poster above. Derbies are a country shoe and do not really cohere with navy blazer and flannels ensemble. This may differ in America which has always had looser standards for what is considered formal.

Also, the EG Dover is really closer to a blucher than a derby. Whatever you like to call it, a split toe blucher/derby/Norwegian is really quite rare in England and I’m not even sure how it fits in with classic menswear. Perhaps, again, it is more common in America?
 

dench127

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Yeah I don't think it's super useful to draw a distinction between a blucher and derby. I do feel like split-toes are kind of the new #menswear shoe of the last few years, for better or worse.

I think a Dark Oak Dover would go great with a navy sport coat and grey flannel trousers, as would dark brown or black tassel loafers. As "sharp" or "smart" as that outfit is, it's still not really a formal look.

1622390826748.png

Also, I think these shoes are bad. I can come up with articulated reasons why, but what's the point -- they do not spark joy :/
 

TheChihuahua

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I am never going to wear desert boots in the desert, just wanted to let you all know. 🤣 🤣🤣
LOL
Fair enough

I guess if you are a British soldier in the South African desert the chukka boot is also a good choice. I assume you will be wearing cargo style pants with that outfit as well?

for those in the real world, the chukka boot is a real cool option, but has seasonal and geographic limitations.
 

TheChihuahua

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I do feel like split-toes are kind of the new #menswear shoe of the last few years, for better or worse.
The split toe is a nice shoe,but I would agree that it is sort of the shoe some are pushing as the staple today, especially those who are really advocating for the smart casual/ biz caj plus/sports coat withwool trousers type of look that some are trying to turn into the #menswear uniform of today.
 

Panama

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I think the rule "no brown in town" is an English thing and probably refers to the City and West End districts of London - areas that are traditionally just referred to as "town" by professional class people of a certain age who live in London or it's vicinity. So "no brown in town" has never actually been a universal rule - "town" doesn't mean "urban areas", it means specifically the City of London and the West End. To some extent the rule still applies there - if you're going to the City to work in a professional office, you'll be expected to wear a suit in blue, black or grey - brown can be frowned upon. Likewise if you're going to the West End to the ballet, opera or an orchestral performance - some form of entertainment appropriate to the sort of professional classes who made these rules - men would wear black or navy.
I definitely don't think it's ever meant to have been taken as a universal rule for any urban area though.
So it's not related to clean underwear?
Asking for a friend..
 

Loathing

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I think a Dark Oak Dover would go great with a navy sport coat and grey flannel trousers, as would dark brown or black tassel loafers. As "sharp" or "smart" as that outfit is, it's still not really a formal look.
Maybe this is another England vs US thing, but I don’t think you can get much more formal than a navy blazer in a fine worsted with grey wool trousers. Most suits are less formal and a worsted suit is only fractionally more formal.

I’m also curious how you can think an outfit would look good with black shoes but is “not really a formal look”. That’s an oxymoron. Black is the most formal colour, and in classic menswear you would never wear black in an informal outfit.
 

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