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Pairing oxford shoes with chinos

johng70

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This is amazing. To me it's rather simple:
there are traditional guidelines about men's dress and formality.
Some men follow those guidelines and still look 'bad' to many people

Some men break them and do their own thing and look good doing it
Some people will look at an individual and, based on some strict interpretation determine the person looks bad because they didn't strictly follow the 'rules'.

I happen to wear oxfords without a suit and still get compliments. I don't discount those compliments because the people giving them are too ill-informed to know I'm breaking a code. I have no doubt certain members of the forum would look down their noses at some of my choices. That's OK. To me, it's all about developing your own style without your own style being so outside of the norms that the majority of people think you look ridiculous. Feel free to parse my words but this has to be the silliest topic to have gone on for 300 posts (and don't think I don't get the irony of me making it 301 :wink:)
 

emptym

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Substitute JAB sale/suits for oxfords w/ chinos, and we have a depiction of this thread, at least through point #4:
SF_Noob_Lifecycle.jpg
 

Loathing

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Yawn... East Coast just waking up here. Man, you guys were going at it! I looked in my closet and realized I have no Derby's. Oxfords, cap toe and brogue, loafers and boots. Huh.

In normal times I'm in CM five days a week and didn't have much use for a Derby, especially after getting bitten by the loafer bug.
I was going to say the same thing. I don’t own any derbies/bluchers. I thought it might be a England vs US thing but apparently not. For me a blucher/derby is a country shoe which doesn’t generally go with the rest of what I’m wearing. I think there is a difference between “country” and informal, too. I wear loafers and chukkas a lot to go in less formal outfits, but I rarely think a derby/blucher would be a clean substitute in the same outfit.

As for the rule of no Oxfords without suits, I think as a rule of thumb it is a good enough one that will generally improve the way you are dressing. You can split hairs over exceptions, but I don’t think it’s that controversial to say it’s a good rule of thumb.
 
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acapaca

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Is this cat wearing oxfords with jeans and a tee (or, as it were, an 'A')?

Brando.PNG
 

adrianvo

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I was going to say the same thing. I don’t own any derbies/bluchers. I thought it might be a England vs US thing but apparently not. For me a blucher/derby is a country shoe which doesn’t generally go with the rest of what I’m wearing. I think there is a difference between “country” and informal, too. I wear loafers and chukkas a lot to go in less formal outfits, but I rarely think a derby/blucher would be a clean substitute in the same outfit.

As for the rule of no Oxfords without suits, I think as a rule of thumb it is a good enough one that will generally improve the way you are dressing. You can split hairs over exceptions, but I don’t think it’s that controversial to say it’s a good rule of thumb.
Limiting yourself and your creativity for no specific reason will not improve the way you are dressing.
So many people in this thread are sounding like anxious teenagers, petrified over judgement by nonfactors.

If there are "exceptions", like brown/polo suede oxfords with chinos for example, then the rule is unneeded. It's not controversial, it's just dumb.
 

Loathing

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Limiting yourself and your creativity for no specific reason will not improve the way you are dressing.
So many people in this thread are sounding like anxious teenagers, petrified over judgement by nonfactors.

If there are "exceptions", like brown/polo suede oxfords with chinos for example, then the rule is unneeded. It's not controversial, it's just dumb.
It’s nothing to do with fear of judgement, it’s about what looks good and what coheres as an ensemble. Wearing something that is incongruently formal in a formal outfit isn’t creative, it’s incoherent. An extreme example would be wearing opera pumps with shorts. If you accept the logic that says that’s an incoherent combination, then you must at least be open to the idea that some things are too informal to be worn with Oxford shoes. Where you draw that line is a matter for discussion. It is useful to adhere to a rule of thumb so you don’t have to try and find that line in the sand each time you get dressed.

Your assertion that rules of thumb are not needed if there are exceptions to them is logically absurd and untenable.

In any case, wearing suede Oxfords with chinos is very likely to look very bad. You would be better dressed if you heeded the heuristic.
 

Phileas Fogg

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^ I think the point is there not all oxfords are created equal. There is a spectrum of formality inherent within the species. A black, cap toe balmoral would indeed look odd with chinos.

But what about this:

1621430801000.jpeg


or this:

1621430862895.jpeg


perhaps not my first choice for chinos, but certainly not incongruent or lacking cohesion.
 

BPL Esq

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^ I think the point is there not all oxfords are created equal. There is a spectrum of formality inherent within the species. A black, cap toe balmoral would indeed look odd with chinos.

But what about this:


or this:


perhaps not my first choice for chinos, but certainly not incongruent or lacking cohesion.
I think those represent the point where most of the 'oxfords are for suits' crowd begins to agree that they're fine but that something else would simply be better.
 

adrianvo

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It’s nothing to do with fear of judgement, it’s about what looks good and what coheres as an ensemble. Wearing something that is incongruently formal in a formal outfit isn’t creative, it’s incoherent. An extreme example would be wearing opera pumps with shorts. If you accept the logic that says that’s an incoherent combination, then you must at least be open to the idea that some things are too informal to be worn with Oxford shoes. Where you draw that line is a matter for discussion. It is useful to adhere to a rule of thumb so you don’t have to try and find that line in the sand each time you get dressed.
Yeah, but that's an extreme comparison - and really just a strawman.
Opera pumps are for black tie and white tie. Events such as black and white tie are NOT about showing your individual style or subjective opinions.

Suede oxfords are by no means particularly formal compared to (calf) black cap-toes or wholecuts, and absolutely coherent with chinos. Your premise is entirely wrong. The fact that it has oxford lacing does not alone lock the shoe into top formality.

DWW's made up rules aren't even rules. So there goes that argument.
^ I think the point is there not all oxfords are created equal. There is a spectrum of formality inherent within the species. A black, cap toe balmoral would indeed look odd with chinos.
Exactly my point, but the DWW brown-nose squad seem to wait for his green light before they'll allow themselves to adjust their opinion.
In any case, wearing suede Oxfords with chinos is very likely to look very bad. You would be better dressed if you heeded the heuristic.
Oh, so now it's about your (or rather, DWW's) subjective opinion on aesthetics and not formality? Your arguments are very inconsistent.

Even if I personally dislike cutaway collars, monkstraps, tie bars and so on, it doesn't mean I'll make up a rule that you can't use them with such and such. Subjective distaste and rules are two different things in this case. Not everyone wants to dress as indistinctively and uninspiring as DWW.

Heeded the heuristic? Are you arguing against yourself or using words you don't understand? Or maybe you just don't realize the irony in what you just wrote? 😂
I think those represent the point where most of the 'oxfords are for suits' crowd begins to agree that they're fine but that something else would simply be better.
Absolutely, and I've stated before that I would go with tassel loafers or split-toe derbies 9/10 times with chinos, but saying that you should NEVER use oxfords with chinos because it's too formal is just misguided.
 

dieworkwear

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Would you look at that...😏

All clear boys, DWW has approved of the chinos+oxford combo in another thread. You may agree with us now.
Those aren't chinos. But I couldn't find a photo of proper tailored chinos, so I pulled that for convenience.
 

adrianvo

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Those aren't chinos. But I couldn't find a photo of proper tailored chinos, so I pulled that for convenience.

Personally, I think your style suffers from bigger problems than your wearing oxfords in non-suit contexts. I think you would benefit from dressing simpler and reviewing what classic style actually means. You dress like a Piiti Uomo character from 2010.
Anyway, my last post on this thread. I've become depressed at what's become of this forum. We now have people arguing whether Matt's fits are good, and then another member posting Pitti Uomo photos.
Bye.
 

dieworkwear

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Hope your self-diagnosed depression passes after mean forum posts, friend.
Curious, if you dislike me so much, and you clearly don't value my opinion, why did you change your avatar after I criticized it? Your old avatar had a photo of your very dandy outfit. After you made your comment about how some men aren't very masculine, and I said your outfit itself isn't very masculine, you changed it to the current photo.

If you think my views are dumb, why did you change your avatar? Your posts strike a path for people who want to dress creatively, wildly, and expressively. You say you don't care about what others think. But clearly, you do care to some degree because after I made even a very dry comment, you changed your photo.

Why not put the old photo back up? Show the world your peacock feathers.
 

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