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Pairing oxford shoes with chinos

TheChihuahua

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.

If someone happens to have beautifully tailored clothes and the outfit otherwise looks nice, then I think they maybe able to get away with and oxford and a sport coat. Would say most of the time, that is not the case. The outfit just ends up looking this, at best. The whole thing is incoherent, modern, ill fitting, and (to my eye) ugly. See below.


View attachment 1608807


Compare the above with the outfit below. I think Bruce looks good, even if I strongly prefer a derby.

View attachment 1608809



A lot of the guys who insist on oxfords outside of suits have other issues with their outfits. The problem isn't just oxfords worn outside the context of suits, but the general lack of interest in how classic men's style was put together in the past. (They may not even want to look like those guys, which is again fine.)
I totally agree with this part.

Generally, if an oxford in a more casual setting looks bad, I don't know that it is the shoes fault (it could be). But there is usually a lot more wrong with the look than just the shoes.

But at the same time, these rules are silly. Not everybody should be wearing the same uniform of a sports coat with tailored trousers and split toe derbies. Viewing a style as something you don't prefer is one thing. Making up rules like "oxfords only with suits" is an entirely different thing, and comes off like gentleman's gazette'ish.

I do appreciate the pictures you have provided. First, it shows that you are willing to discuss with sincerity, which I appreciate. Also, you did provide some good pictures of oxfords without suits, but you also provided some pretty horrendous derbies that made the sports coat look appear real sloppy.

I am coming away from this thinking:
1. Split toe derby looks great in the sports coat look and more casual smart dress
2. suede oxfords without suits is a great look
3. clunky derbies look like orthopedic shoes
4. some of those pictures of walnut strands with jeans actually look good (not saying they fall within classic menswear, but they look good nonetheless.)
5. Loafers are what they always have been in my eyes. A good option, but at the end of the day a bit boring (I often wear loafers casually, I am not anti-loafer)
6. Chukka boots are cooler weather options only
 

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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4. some of those pictures of walnut strands with jeans actually look good (not saying they fall within classic menswear, but they look good nonetheless.)
Can you post examples you like?
 

Phileas Fogg

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Compare the above with the outfit below. I think Bruce looks good, even if I strongly prefer a derby.
I do recall asking you specially once about wearing suede oxfords with a more casual outfit and if you would abandon your position that oxfords only go with suits. Your answer, I believe, was an emphatic “no!”
 

TheChihuahua

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Can you post examples you like?
First, I know these don't fall within "classic menswear" or acceptable look for the 1930's (to get that out of the way before Valdilus suffers a reading comprehension glitch again and goes off on some tangent) (also, I'm not sure why looking like guys from the 1930's is the goal)

This is a McAllister, but I think its a good look:

1620851276938.png




I think the shirt in this one leaves a little to be desired, but generally I think this looks decent

1620851435437.png


I think these strands would be great with casual look. As nice as pretty much any of the derbies posted (the split toe derby I think looks best). These shoes are not formal, they can be dressed up but can also be dressed down:

1620851698130.png
 

TheChihuahua

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I do recall asking you specially once about wearing suede oxfords with a more casual outfit and if you would abandon your position that oxfords only go with suits. Your answer, I believe, was an emphatic “no!”
I recall that too. It was such a hard and fast rule on something that I felt was a faulty premise. Which is why I invested so much time to the discussion. Same with a suit sans tie (which I think oxfords, even more formal ones, can look great with).
 

ValidusLA

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First, I know these don't fall within "classic menswear" or acceptable look for the 1930's (to get that out of the way before Valdilus suffers a reading comprehension glitch again and goes off on some tangent)
Tangent does not equal correcting your repeated mistakes, prevarications, and implications. In case you didn't know

NaturalFlawedChickadee-size_restricted.gif
 

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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First, I know these don't fall within "classic menswear" or acceptable look for the 1930's (to get that out of the way before Valdilus suffers a reading comprehension glitch again and goes off on some tangent) (also, I'm not sure why looking like guys from the 1930's is the goal)

This is a McAllister, but I think its a good look:

View attachment 1608829



I think the shirt in this one leaves a little to be desired, but generally I think this looks decent

View attachment 1608831

I think these strands would be great with casual look. As nice as pretty much any of the derbies posted (the split toe derby I think looks best). These shoes are not formal, they can be dressed up but can also be dressed down:

View attachment 1608834
Yea, I think those are bad looks. I suppose we just disagree.

This is the full outfit of the first photo, btw. Personally dislike this kind of stuff.


Levitate Style - Allen Edmonds-9731.jpeg
 

TheChihuahua

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Yea, I think those are bad looks. I suppose we just disagree.

This is the full outfit of the first photo, btw. Personally dislike this kind of stuff.


View attachment 1608840
Fair enough.

To me, this look is terrible. The outfit actually isn't that bad, but the shoes totally ruin it. It's like an outfit trying to be nice, but then shoes that are just out of place and clunky and drag everything down. Is he dressed up? Or is he casual? Or is this some sort of family picture day where he is wearing something that would never be worn in a real world setting and the shoes are trying to keep it more low key than a professional setting (the srot of forced church outfit that you reference)? This is the worst among what you have posted (besides the clownish examples), in my opinion.


1620852132561.png
 

emptym

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Rules are for lameos and cops.
Great rule!
Rules my friends are meant to be broken, so lets raise the bar here why stop at chinos, lets wear AE Strands with jeans shorts!
Fixed.
So this is where you lose me:
1. You created a rule (a hard and fast rule that you have repeated numerous times): oxfords only with suits
...
I think you are interjecting your own region way too much into this rule. In California the sports coat look with a derby might come off better given the general nature of the area. But say New England in the fall, a shoe like the Allen Edmonds McAllister might be a better choice.
It's not his rule. As he mentioned, it's a common, traditional rule. I've lived in New England and California for several yrs each, and I'd say there would be many more men in NE than CA who would be familiar with the common, traditional rule that oxfords are best worn with suits.

Now, will the universe explode if you wear oxfords with chinos, jeans, or shorts. No. But will there be people, who know, notice, and care about that traditional rule? Yes. Should you care that they do? That's up to you.
 

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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Fair enough.

To me, this look is terrible. The outfit actually isn't that bad, but the shoes totally ruin it. It's like an outfit trying to be nice, but then shoes that are just out of place and clunky and drag everything down. Is he dressed up? Or is he casual? Or is this some sort of family picture day where he is wearing something that would never be worn in a real world setting and the shoes are trying to keep it more low key than a professional setting? This is the worst among what you have posted (besides the clownish examples), in my opinion.


View attachment 1608845
I genuinely don't understand what issue you have with that outfit. I would have preferred brown derbies in that outfit, but I think Phillip looks great. That photo was taken sometime in the 1960s and has aged very well, in terms of style. I don't get what you mean by "orthopedic" shoes. If you look at his foot on the ground, it's a normal derby. It's not overly sleek and flashy -- which has become much more the norm in online circles -- but it's tasteful.
 

ValidusLA

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I genuinely don't understand what issue you have with that outfit. I would have preferred brown derbies in that outfit, but I think Phillip looks great. That photo was taken sometime in the 1960s and has aged very well, in terms of style. I don't get what you mean by "orthopedic" shoes. If you look at his foot on the ground, it's a normal derby. It's not overly sleek and flashy -- which has become much more the norm in online circles -- but it's tasteful.
I also don't understand what you don't like about it.

I believe you posted some black derbies at some point, so it can't be the color?

Do you just like #menswear shapes?
 

TheChihuahua

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I genuinely don't understand what issue you have with that outfit. I would have preferred brown derbies in that outfit, but I think Phillip looks great. That photo was taken sometime in the 1960s and has aged very well, in terms of style. I don't get what you mean by "orthopedic" shoes. If you look at his foot on the ground, it's a normal derby. It's not overly sleek and flashy -- which has become much more the norm in online circles -- but it's tasteful.
It's terrible. And it is terrible due to the shoes.

to me, it looks like that forced "I have to dress up for church" look that you earlier attributed to people wearing oxfords with chinos.
The shoes look like orthopedic shoes. They are not tasteful. They are clunky and make the whole outfit look sloppy.
I don't know how else to describe it beyond what I have already said, but to me the outfit could be fine with a better pair of shoes.

You talk about language and cohesion and the totality of the outfit, and I believe these shoes totally sabotage this outfit. And not because they are derbies, put some split toe derbies on him, or some brown wingtip derbies on him, or some loafers, or monk straps, all good. Heck, if those black derbies were wingtips that would probable be fine. I am not advocating for oxfords here. But those shoes ruin that outfit.

Just my opinion.
 

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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Tell Luciano he’s doing it wrong:

View attachment 1608846
Those are not oxfords.

He would look better in a darker, less warm shade of brown for shoes.


It's terrible. And it is terrible due to the shoes.

to me, it looks like that forced "I have to dress up for church" look that you earlier attributed to people wearing oxfords with chinos.
The shoes look like orthopedic shoes. They are not tasteful. They are clunky and make the whole outfit look sloppy.
I don't know how else to describe it beyond what I have already said, but to me the outfit could be fine with a better pair of shoes.

Just my opinion.
The shape doesn't look that different to me than Edward Green's 202 last.


MG_9858_grande.jpeg
 

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