Pacers-Pistons brawl

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by Ambulance Chaser, Nov 22, 2004.

  1. Mike

    Mike Senior member

    Messages:
    437
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2002
    Location:
    Detroit Area
    I may be slightly biased as I am from Detroit, but I think 6 games is ok for Wallace.  He did something that people have seen before, though wrong, and didn't jump in to the stands and start beating people.  

    Artest got what he deserved.  There is no reason for someone to throw anything at him, but he shouldn't have jumped up in to the stands.  He could have easily called over security.  By the way, his eyes were closed when he was on the table, and he was facing up at the ceiling, so there is no way he could have seen exactly who threw the cup.  If you look at the guy he attacked, and he did, putting the guy in a headlock and almost smashing his head into the seats, he was the scrawniest guy in that section, complete with glasses.  The other assholes that jumped up there to "protect their teammate" and who were really swinging should've gotten more games of suspension.

    The fans who went on to the court need to be stripped of their season tickets and prosecuted.  There is no reason to be on the court at anytime, that is not part of the admission price.  The one's in the stands, especially those who were not involved in the throwing of the cup but still got beat on may have the ability to serve a law suit.  Talk to the lawyers, I'm definatly not one.

    Above all, EVERYONE involved, players and fans, need to remember that its a profesional setting.  Its no longer playground ball where you settle things with your fists and the crowd can do whatever they please.  People could have been severly hurt by this.  

    As for the owners to get fined for not clearing the court fast enough, nothing like this has really ever happened, so there was no way of knowing how out of control things could get.  As for firing pepper spray, it is a very enclosed space packed with many people.  Let's remember that girl who was killed in Boston after the Sox won and they shot pepper spray rounds into the tightly packed crowd.

    Finally, and I know no one here has said anything yet, but the Pistons play at the Palace of Auburn Hills, which is 50 miles or more outside of the city of Detroit.  A majority of fans there come from the surrounding areas- wealthy suburbs.  The city of Detroit does not deserve a black eye for this, but rather the Pacers and the fans.

    *edit* since Brian SD posted while i was writting I couldn't respond. I think the inverse is true as well. If I was in the stands minding my own business and watching the game and players jumped into the stands and started beating people around me, I'd damn sure be knocking those guys out, if only to protect myself.
     


  2. nightowl6261a

    nightowl6261a Senior member

    Messages:
    1,457
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Location:
    Atlanta
    huuuuuraaahhhh, stand up and preach it, 'cause none of the younger people will listen to the truth about that....it has gotten out of hand and someone needs to be made an example of to regain sense and sensability among professional athletes and make them take notice and be responsible ADULTS for a chang.
     


  3. Stu

    Stu Senior member

    Messages:
    2,351
    Likes Received:
    12
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2002
    Location:
    Princeton
    Check out the video. You'll see a few sucker punches from some liquored up people in the crowd.


    I'm coming at this from a different point of view, because I am a hard-core Pacer fan -- grew up in Indiana and have been following them since 1969. From my biased point of view, it wasn't a push, Wallace clocked him across the chops pretty good.

    Now, should Artest have gone in the stands? Hell no. Is his suspension warranted? Probably yes. But what irks the crap out of me is that all you hear is what a psycho he is, and the fact is, he didn't start it. The foul wasn't even that hard, and it sure as heck wasn't flagrant or dirty. It was Wallace who went ape sh.. Artest didn't instigate anything till some guy threw a beer on him.

    And then how the fans got out on the court at the end is beyond me. Why didn't that cop at the end threaten to mace one of the fans on the court instead of Artest?

    I sure as heck hope the Pistons organization has to pay for this, and I mean pay dearly. Artest got what he deserved, let's see what stern does to the Pistons.
     


  4. jpeirpont

    jpeirpont Senior member

    Messages:
    3,983
    Likes Received:
    69
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2004
    Location:
    Negrolandia
    You can't throw things at people and expect them to laugh it off because they are athletes. If the person they attacked threw something I don't see why he wouldn't expect to be retaliated against. I think the fan that ran on the court got what he deserved. He obviously ran on the court looking for a fight. But all in all most of the suspensions were fair, save Artest (a season is over doing it) and Wallace, they have to accept some of them blame I suppose they could have ran off the court or something.
    I think it has anything to do with any "ghetto mentality", these types of things happen in sports. Soccer riots happen in Europe though not an athlete on crowd attack it's still violent. Then there stories of South Americans getting killed for failing to blocks goals. Baseball pileups are just as violent as the situation in the Pacer- Detroit game.
    edited- spelling
     


  5. Sevcom

    Sevcom Senior member

    Messages:
    342
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2002
    Location:
    New York
    Good point. Listening to pundits lament this as 'the worst incident in sports history' is ridiculous.

    One punishment against the fans that I've read comes from soccer: lock out the fans the next game. I think an Italian club was forced to do that after a hooligan hullaballoo a couple of years ago. Of course, the profit-seeking NBA would never do that.
     


  6. matadorpoeta

    matadorpoeta Senior member

    Messages:
    4,458
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    the way it works in soccer is that a team is held responsible for the actions of its fans. so sometimes if the fans do something that crosses the line, the team has to play its next home match behind closed doors, thereby losing their ticket revenue and home field advantage for that match. sometimes the home team has to play at a neutral site in which case they only lose home filed advantage.

    by ghetto mentality i was not referring to the incident itself, but fans' reactions to the incident. if the brawl had occured in the '50s or '60s artest would be banned for life and no none would have argued otherewise, but nowadays people are more accepting of mindless viloence. even brian sd, a white boy from san diego sees immediate violence as a proper response. no civilized person would immediately run into a crowd and start swinging because he got hit by a plastic beer cup.

    fans have been throwing objects at athletes since the days of the roman gladiators. if you make millions of dollars to play a sport in front of the public, you should know how to behave yourself in difficult situations.
     


  7. Mike

    Mike Senior member

    Messages:
    437
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2002
    Location:
    Detroit Area
    Well said, matador
     


  8. jcusey

    jcusey Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    1,802
    Likes Received:
    46
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Many reprehensible things have been common since the days of the gladiators. Throwing bottles at basketball players is illegal, whether you've paid for your ticket or not. The Pistons should revoke the miscreants' season tickets, the NBA should ban them permanently from any league venue, and the Michigan authorities should prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law.
     


  9. matadorpoeta

    matadorpoeta Senior member

    Messages:
    4,458
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    jcusey, i agree with you. the fans should be punished as well, but the fans' actions don't justify that of the players.

    edited for terrible spelling.
     


  10. TheRookie

    TheRookie Senior member

    Messages:
    168
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Artest's suspension was warranted, and Jackson should have received the same. Not only did the two go into the stands, but Artest attacked a different guy from the one that threw the cup at him. The guy Jackson attacked had likewise not assaulted a player. I'm sure these two fans will be filing (and getting $ in settlement) civil suits shortly.
     


  11. esquire.

    esquire. Senior member

    Messages:
    1,303
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2004
    I went back, and looked at other suspensions.

    In 95, Vernon Maxwell also went into the stands, after a fan who had been heckling him, and punched him. For this, he was suspended 10 games w/o pay and fined 20 grands. To me, hitting somebody who's heckling you is a lot worse than going after someone who's throwing bottles at your face with the potential of causing serious harm. Of course, I don't understand why a fan can shout racial slurs with no penalty. This has nothing to do with free speech, etc...

    And, if you look at the tape, when Artest initially goes into the stands, he doesn't hit the person. He struggles, grasps, but doesn't get a chance to land a punch. Part of this, is because other players are holding him back. Then, while Artest is being restrained, a fan throws more stuff at him. Its at this point, that Jackson starts throwing punches. Artest is still not throwing punches, but then one of the fans starts pummeling him from behind. Only at this point, does Artest start to retaliate with his own punches. Then, on the floor, Artest punches out another fan who's on the court and is cocking his fist to fight Artest. That's why I think Artest's punishment is too harsh. If it went to arbitration, it would get reduced. It seems he's being punished for his past history and for instigating the fight. But, you could argue its really Wallace who started this whole thing.

    With O'Neal, his punch occurs when a fan is on the courtside. And, to me, if the fan is on the court, he's fair game. We've seen football players level fans who were on the field with no punishment.
     


  12. Stu

    Stu Senior member

    Messages:
    2,351
    Likes Received:
    12
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2002
    Location:
    Princeton
    I agree, he is. But is that appropriate? Afterall, you'll get treated a lot harsher by a judge for your 3rd DUI than your 1st. As well you should.
     


  13. shoreman1782

    shoreman1782 Senior member

    Messages:
    8,751
    Likes Received:
    6,809
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2004
    Location:
    DMV
    My rant...

    The reason Artest and others are getting the serious suspensions is that they broke the "fourth wall" of entertainment. Adam Carolla by way of Bill Simmons said something to the effect of "It's like watching Captain Hook in the movies for two hours, then Captain Hook comes off the screen and starts attacking the crowd." Not to compare what Artest does on the court to a friggin pirate, but that' how strong that fourth wall is; you can't imagine it breaking. Stern needed to send a message, or you'd have people saying "I don't want to take my kids to the game."

    This stuff about ghetto mentality and thug trends is ridiculous. Artest is a garden variety jackass. He may have some diagnosed, treatable psych problems, but he's still just a run-of-the-mill jackass, past and present.

    Brian SD, I'm with you in that Artest's reaction is understandable from a certain standpoint, but if a client came into my office and threw a beer at me and I punched him, I'd be fired. It's difficult to compare situations; this one is pretty unique.

    It will be a travesty if the Pistons org doesn't get some punishment, though it shouldn't be on any player. I like the closed doors for a game or two idea a lot.
     


  14. chorse123

    chorse123 Senior member

    Messages:
    10,448
    Likes Received:
    74
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2004
    THAT's comedy. This whole thing is lamentable and whatnot, but it's still funny in a way.
     


  15. TheRookie

    TheRookie Senior member

    Messages:
    168
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    This, in my opinion, is the most interesting part of the situation - Artest is a tough guy when it comes to kicking cameramen and assaulting fans, but when another NBA player (Wallace) wanted a piece of him, he ran away and hid behind a wall of teammates, coaches, and officials. Says a lot about his character.
     


Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by