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P Johnson MTM

Oli2012

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Suit Shop is fantastic, especially for a person in your position.

The weakness of Suit Shop is that it's range is somewhat limited compared to P Johnson.
 

KVG91

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It's probably too late to say this, but if you're from Brisbane, you should give very serious consideration to ordering something from Rene at Deer Style in Brisbane.

Excellent price point, very wide range of customisation, very wide range of cloth and, as you note, much, much, much better than the Cloakroom. Rene's also an extremely nice person, to boot. I don't have a commercial interest, but I'm a very satisfied customer of Deer Style.


Thanks Journeyman, I have never heard of Deer Style before.
What was their price point for suiting? Would be keen to perhaps get some shirts done, now that I know they exist. The website doesn't give much away, but if they are as good as you say they are they should really invest in improving their online platform and marketing!
 

fox81

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Evening chaps.

What is the general feedback on SuitShop products? 

I was also looking to get some advice RE first time MTM suiting. I'm from Brisbane and am only in Sydney for a few days. I simply refuse to get anything done at Brisbane's The Cloakroom, as I've had numerous friends get items done (including members of the Reds) and the feedback has never been good. I have an appointment later this month at Suit Shop and I'm looking to get two suits done plus an extra pair of off-white trousers. 


if you get enough of a dialogue with suit shop, they might let you order from Brisbane when p Johnson does a visit, which is around every 8-12 weeks.
 

KVG91

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if you get enough of a dialogue with suit shop, they might let you order from Brisbane when p Johnson does a visit, which is around every 8-12 weeks.


I was hoping to discuss this with them when I go down. I don't anticipate the garments being perfect when they send them up to me, but I don't think I will be going back to Sydney (or Melbourne) for some time. I'm hoping that I will be able to snag an appointment with one of them when they come to Brisbane with PJT. Wishful thinking, perhaps.
 

Journeyman

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Thanks Journeyman, I have never heard of Deer Style before.
What was their price point for suiting? Would be keen to perhaps get some shirts done, now that I know they exist. The website doesn't give much away, but if they are as good as you say they are they should really invest in improving their online platform and marketing!

@KVG91 - Rene (the proprietor of Deer Style) has recently had to increase his prices a bit due to the dismal state of the Australian dollar.


I've included information below, but spoilered it so it doesn't interrupt this thread too much, but feel free to have a look if you are interested. Rene is very friendly and always happy to meet and chat about clothing and potential commissions.

Deer Style has three levels, catering to different budgets. At every level, the workmanship can be customised and adjusted to fit in with the client's budget.

The lowest range is priced from $595-795 and is made in China. The suits are machine made and are half-canvassed. Handwork is limited to sleeve lining attachment and some collar detailing. The fabrics are Asian. Options include upgrade to Italian or English fabrics at additional cost.

The next line is still made in China, at a different place. Prices range from $895-1000 for house fabrics and $1200-1500 for Italian/English fabrics by Dormeuil, Huddersfield, Minnis, Fox and so on. Rene has a lot - a lot - of different fabric books and is happy to order a very wide variety of fabrics. Jackets have a full floating canvas through the lapels and chest. Handwork is optional but is included with higher-priced fabrics. You can get a Neapolitan (pleated) shoulder if you like and the suits are greatly customisable - lapel width, shoulder style, pocket styles, integrated waistband on the back of the trousers and so on.

The top line is handmade in Italy and pricing for a suit starts at about $2000, including Italian or English cloth. Jackets are priced from $1500. A basted fitting is available at extra cost, and this involves Rene receiving the half-finished jacket from Italy, you trying it on, Rene pinning it up or marking any adjustments and then sending it back to Italy so the required adjustments can be incorporated into the jacket/suit.

Chinese made shirts are $200.00 and G.Inglese shirts, which are hand-made in Italy, start at $300.00.

I've got seven shirts by Inglese through Deer Style and they are absolutely fantastic.

You're right about the website and marketing - it is certainly not Rene's strong point. However, he's previously said to me that he's happy for the vast majority of his clients to come to him through word-of-mouth referrals. I do wish that he'd update his website and Tumblr and Instagram more frequently, though!
 
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Styleternity

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if you get enough of a dialogue with suit shop, they might let you order from Brisbane when p Johnson does a visit, which is around every 8-12 weeks.

Can confirm from my personal experience this is possible. Rob Blythe (the primary owner at SS) has a stake in both groups, but it's probably something I'd clear with him and his team in person beforehand.

The fitting procedure between both is similar, and the boys at PJT frequently are run through training at SS in their preliminary days.
 

Lowndes

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I'm contemplating getting a midnight blue tux made by P Johnson this summer. Has anybody gone that route? Previously I've used P Johnson for more casual looking suits for lack of a better description. I'm debating between P Johnson and Chan as cost would be somewhat similar (but PJ is much more convenient for me). Any advice would be much appreciated.
 

hens

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I havent had anytjing made by chan for a while but it depends what style you after. Do you want the more casual look of pjt or the more structured look of chan, i wouldnt ask either to do the other style. Alternatives are bnt via the fineryco.
 

Styleternity

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I'm debating between P Johnson and Chan as cost would be somewhat similar (but PJ is much more convenient for me). Any advice would be much appreciated.

Not to chide you too much @Lowndes but can I assume you are referring shorthand to the Hong Kong based tailoring house "W.W. Chan"?

If so, I would be more inclined toward Chan for a variety of reasons (taking into account that I've had about three suits made through PJT over the past 4 years):
  1. The quality of Chan's work (in the construction and finishing categories) is IMO better. This is partially because they don't farm the making out to a factory overseas. The pattern cutting and suit-making are all done in Hong Kong, reportedly all in the same building. The only exception to this general observation would be if you are having something made with PJT's new Sartoria Carrara workshop (at an up-charge I'm sure);
  2. P Johnson largely do MTM clothing. There's nothing wrong with that, but if you can access bespoke at the same price (which is what Chan focuses on) the latter seems much more appealing, particularly if you have weird body idiosyncrasies as I do. I had a variety of casual and formal tailoring made with PJT and while the fit was always 'good' they never nailed it;
  3. Chan are actually surprisingly flexible when it comes to a house style. Obviously, their default involves a little bit of draping and features a structured shoulder but over the years their contact with various third party retailers (n.b. Brio & The Armoury) has made them receptive when it comes to making something softer and dare I say more "Italian". If you go that route just be sure to specify what you want and request it persistently.
The totality of what I'm saying might imply I'm a bit down on PJT. Just to clarify, that's not the case at all. Their clothing is still incredibly wearable, louche and has a certain mass appeal evident on social media. However if what you're looking for is VFM and durability, Chan make a product which has been almost universally well reviewed - by the sort of people who habitually buy bespoke at triple the price. PJT's prices have also gone up (there are showrooms to pay for after all) and their supply chain has become slightly more opaque too. Those latter two considerations strongly affected my ability to continue buying from them.

Just my two cents as a former PJ customer.
 

JayH

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Not to chide you too much @Lowndes but can I assume you are referring shorthand to the Hong Kong based tailoring house "W.W. Chan"?

If so, I would be more inclined toward Chan for a variety of reasons (taking into account that I've had about three suits made through PJT over the past 4 years):
  1. The quality of Chan's work (in the construction and finishing categories) is IMO better. This is partially because they don't farm the making out to a factory overseas. The pattern cutting and suit-making are all done in Hong Kong, reportedly all in the same building. The only exception to this general observation would be if you are having something made with PJT's new Sartoria Carrara workshop (at an up-charge I'm sure);
  2. P Johnson largely do MTM clothing. There's nothing wrong with that, but if you can access bespoke at the same price (which is what Chan focuses on) the latter seems much more appealing, particularly if you have weird body idiosyncrasies as I do. I had a variety of casual and formal tailoring made with PJT and while the fit was always 'good' they never nailed it;
  3. Chan are actually surprisingly flexible when it comes to a house style. Obviously, their default involves a little bit of draping and features a structured shoulder but over the years their contact with various third party retailers (n.b. Brio & The Armoury) has made them receptive when it comes to making something softer and dare I say more "Italian". If you go that route just be sure to specify what you want and request it persistently.
The totality of what I'm saying might imply I'm a bit down on PJT. Just to clarify, that's not the case at all. Their clothing is still incredibly wearable, louche and has a certain mass appeal evident on social media. However if what you're looking for is VFM and durability, Chan make a product which has been almost universally well reviewed - by the sort of people who habitually buy bespoke at triple the price. PJT's prices have also gone up (there are showrooms to pay for after all) and their supply chain has become slightly more opaque too. Those latter two considerations strongly affected my ability to continue buying from them.

Just my two cents as a former PJ customer.

I might just drop a few comments in response to the above post. Before I start don't get me wrong, I fully understand where you are coming from. Your feedback may have accurately captured the offerings in the past, however there have been some changes since the inception of the new workshop which may be a game changer for guys trying to decide between PJ or someone else. As of a few months ago the suit production is running exclusively out of their Carrara workshop. No cost uplift for handwork, monograms, lining options etc. what you see is what you get. If you are moving away from their house fabrics (which are very nice IMO, VBC et al.) and into LP, Minnis and the like there is a change in price accordingly.

The fit system based on the new Carrara pattern is pretty comprehensive for a MTM operator. Left/right, front/back balance adjustments are all captured in the fitting.

I'm not trying to stir the pot even more, but I'm going to put it out there and say that Chan is not bespoke in every instance, rather a MTM option in Australia, albeit a very good one. Fitting garments are used for the first fitting and from that the base pattern is adjusted accordingly. Obviously they can do bespoke but the Australian option usually involves one fitting then having the garment sent back via post.

With that all said I'm not a regular client of PJ, im one of those guys who's wardrobe is from bespoke tailors at triple the price of PJ. I just feel that I have to give credit where it's due and the new Carrara offering is impressive.
 
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sydneycentric

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What's the general consensus on the new PJT 'house style'? I've heard a few disappointing reviews as it's a lot looser and not as 'tailored' as the previous style. Personally, if I pay upwards of 2K for a MTM suit, I would want it to fit me and not be pandering towards a loose style that they would like people to wear. Thoughts?
 

fox81

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I haven't ordered from them in a while, but I would have said historically their house style was too "tailored", and that relaxing it at all would make it conform to broader tailoring styles.
with that said, they were accommodating in the past when I said I wanted something a bit more classic than their house style.
 

AbsoluteStyle

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Latest review on P Johnson by Simon Crompton from Permanent Style: https://www.permanentstyle.com/2017/08/p-johnson-tailoring-review.html

Review seems okay - Simon is quite picky on style and is used to bespoke products.

What is CONCERNING is the comments section where it seems the general consensus is that even today a portion of P Johnson's suits are actually made in China and not in their Carrara factory as claimed? One commentator claims to have visited the Carrara factory and says its impossible for a factory of that size to be producing the amount of suits PJs is selling globally across 4-5 showroom?

Comments also mention about shoddy sales tactics in the past claiming everything was made in Italy when it was actually made in same chinese factory as Suit Shop.

Comments are worth a read and seem to present a whole new image of P Johnson "Tailors".

Anyone here have any thoughts?
 

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