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Outright lies about education

Discussion in 'Business, Careers & Education' started by Egert, Mar 11, 2011.

  1. Teger

    Teger Senior member

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    theres two ways to check academic references: you can call the university directly, or you can go through a third party system that has agreements with most major universities. bear in mind this just tells if someone attended/graduated from a university, not their gpa.
     


  2. kasper007

    kasper007 Senior member

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    I was talking about diplomas, schools, etc... rather than GPA. My transcript was requested but I don't know if they used it to check my GPA. I actually don't think I had my GPA anywhere on my resume.
    You must have been an experienced hire then [​IMG] There's isn't much that tell college students apart except from GPA But to get back to the OP's question, i think it's possible (but obviously dangerous) to get away with inflating your GPA, but not much else
     


  3. gdl203

    gdl203 Affiliate Vendor Dubiously Honored Affiliate Vendor

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    No - I was recruited on campus. IIRC, my school's policy was no GPA or grades on resume.
     


  4. yjeezle

    yjeezle Senior member

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    never outright lie on your resume
    not exactly lying on your resume and I know OP said he wasn't considering it. HOWEVER, I would like to share with you you a fellow UT alum's experience (I wish he wasn't a fellow alum): http://www.blippitt.com/jeffrey-chia...interview-fail
     


  5. thinman

    thinman Senior member

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    Lying on your resume or job application exposes you to possible termination anytime it is discovered, even years after you were hired. Is the risk worth it to you?

    FWIW, I was recently required to provide transcripts to verify my degrees prior to starting a new job, 22 and 28 years post-degree. Obviously, at this point no one cares about my GPA, but employers do check information on your resume and application.
     


  6. rach2jlc

    rach2jlc Prof. Fabulous Dubiously Honored

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    ^+1.

    Short answer of this thread: it's a risk that can hang over your head and that has no statute of limitations. Some places will check, some will not. That being said, the only "safe" choice is not to fudge or lie and to treat your CV/resume as a more-or-less "sacred" and legally binding document.

    As others have said, is the risk worth it to you? I hardly see how it could be. No matter how "good" you are, if after ten years, it somehow comes out you didn't actually even go to the school you said you did, you'll get fired.

    And, having been in academia, it's WAAAAY too ironic and sometimes plain bizarre how people get found out about this shit. It's usually through something completely random, and completely accidental (not even the obvious "we called your school.")

    Personally, I'd never do it, and wouldn't want a job where I felt like it was the "only" way I could get hired. I'd never really relax, and the thought of having it all come crashing down would weigh too heavily on me. And, the longer it went on withOUT getting discovered, the bigger crisis it could be if ultimately it does (I mean, how are you going to explain to your wife/kids 15 years into a career why you suddenly got fired for something stupid you did?)

    It only takes one weird set of events for it to come out, and people are suckers for the truth. My advice: don't do it. Just work harder to make yourself get where/what you want.

    p.s. if you need more "scaring" into NOT fudging on this stuff, feel free to request horror stories about what has been fudged, and how it came out, and the repercussions. I've seen just about all there is to see, thanks to time spent working with the Coordinator of our Program and also serving on some search committees and such.
     


  7. A.L.Z.

    A.L.Z. Senior member

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    Recently talked to someone working in front office in investment banking and when I asked, how did he end up there (pretty respectable bank, pretty respectable position held a few years now @ London), I got a response that shook me a bit.

    But since it's kinda ethical thing and respectable banks don't even look at your resume when you don't come from top schools, he outright lied in resume and got hired. I don't know how far in details the lie went, but I'm pretty sure he didn't forge any diplomas, as that would be considered criminal.

    Now, I also know that if you already work in a field, you probably don't gain anything in school, but pick it up when you need it. He is pretty much a superstar in his department and it's a win-win for both him and the bank, even though it can be frustrating and too machiavellian (I assume he has kept it to himself @ the bank).

    Now, how is the education really checked? Or do employers just assume that one wouldn't dare to lie about something like that? What's your take on this and the situation?


    What you are describing is an almost infinitessimally rare case---a lie about education on the resume to get hired, and then stellar performance while on the job...
    In this infinitessimally rare case, like you say its win-win for both parties and nothing will happen...


    HOWEVER....should the need arise to "check" schooling/education---this is the easiest thing in the world to do today---one only has to telephone the school, ask for Alumni relations or something like that (or describe the reason for calling to be correctly directed to the right person) and confirm everything on the resume....
     


  8. thinman

    thinman Senior member

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    Does anyone remember George O'Leary, the Notre Dame football coach (for all of about 10 minutes)? He apparently got away with it for a while, but just don't falsify your resume.
     


  9. rach2jlc

    rach2jlc Prof. Fabulous Dubiously Honored

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    Does anyone remember George O'Leary, the Notre Dame football coach (for all of about 10 minutes)? He apparently got away with it for a while, but just don't falsify your resume.
    There was also the Korean director of a huge Korean Arts festival who lied about a degree from Yale. Turns out that a slip-up (read: shitty, gross oversight and lack of attention to their job!) actually had Yale say that she had attended. Anyway, various other things came out over time, and she was stripped of her title and HUGE embarassments ensued, including a big lawsuit between the Korean uni/organization who hired her and Yale. Forget her name now... but it's pretty famous. If I can find it, I'll link. Edit: found it. Thank you, google! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shin_Jeong-ah Again, moral of the story: you get found out, it ruins your life. Doesn't matter how long, and the "higher" up you go, the bigger the fall. Doesn't matter what a good job you're doing. Treat your CV like an "official" document, not just a way to "introduce" yourself and your background/accomplishments to a company or a department.
     


  10. StephenHero

    StephenHero Black Floridian

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    I like the people that put "Oxford" and "Wharton School" on their resumes because they went for a field trip.
     


  11. CBrown85

    CBrown85 Senior member

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    Every place I have ever worked has thoroughly checked every claim on my resume. Once I almost got in trouble becuase I listed a degree that, because of a paperwork delay, had not processed yet even though I had done all the work and "graduated."

    This has happened to me as well.
     


  12. JayJay

    JayJay Senior member

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    ^+1.

    Short answer of this thread: it's a risk that can hang over your head and that has no statute of limitations. Some places will check, some will not. That being said, the only "safe" choice is not to fudge or lie and to treat your CV/resume as a more-or-less "sacred" and legally binding document.

    As others have said, is the risk worth it to you? I hardly see how it could be. No matter how "good" you are, if after ten years, it somehow comes out you didn't actually even go to the school you said you did, you'll get fired.

    And, having been in academia, it's WAAAAY too ironic and sometimes plain bizarre how people get found out about this shit. It's usually through something completely random, and completely accidental (not even the obvious "we called your school.")

    Personally, I'd never do it, and wouldn't want a job where I felt like it was the "only" way I could get hired. I'd never really relax, and the thought of having it all come crashing down would weigh too heavily on me. And, the longer it went on withOUT getting discovered, the bigger crisis it could be if ultimately it does (I mean, how are you going to explain to your wife/kids 15 years into a career why you suddenly got fired for something stupid you did?)

    It only takes one weird set of events for it to come out, and people are suckers for the truth. My advice: don't do it. Just work harder to make yourself get where/what you want.

    p.s. if you need more "scaring" into NOT fudging on this stuff, feel free to request horror stories about what has been fudged, and how it came out, and the repercussions. I've seen just about all there is to see, thanks to time spent working with the Coordinator of our Program and also serving on some search committees and such.

    rach speaks truth. People who lie on resumes are often found out not because someone was checking, but because someone, say an alumni director, or someone in the school's foundation, sees a bio or reads a press release and decides that the person would be a good contact for a donation or other school-related purpose. In doing their homework before making contact they realize that there is no record of the person ever being enrolled. These sorts of discoveries don't happen often, but they do happen.
     


  13. AR_Six

    AR_Six "Sookie!"

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    not exactly lying on your resume and I know OP said he wasn't considering it.

    HOWEVER, I would like to share with you you a fellow UT alum's experience (I wish he wasn't a fellow alum):

    http://www.blippitt.com/jeffrey-chia...interview-fail

    Even I heard about this.
     


  14. ektaylor

    ektaylor Senior member

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  15. Lord-Barrington

    Lord-Barrington Senior member

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    Lying on your resume is a loser's game, plain and simple. Way to easy to be found out and the cost can be steep.

    I wonder though, to what point can you embellish your resume? I've read MBA resume books where first year analysts at banks I'd never heard of claimed to have "originated deals" totalling tens of millions of dollars which, I'm sure, they never actually did per se. They were probably on a team that originated these deals or maybe part of the office where the deal came from but they certainly didn't do the legwork for the deal themselves. Yet embellishments like this seem not only common but expected from adcoms.

    So when does embellishment turn into lying? How much is too much?
     


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