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Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by Roguls, Jan 15, 2011.
Update on Outlier online shop:
man they really ought to do more budget items a la the nycos.
Probably Veilance, ACRONYM, etc
that's just not how they do.
The whole idea of Outlier is making somewhat classic styles out of technical fabrics... and those aren't cheap. Some of their stuff is stupidly priced though -- mainly outerwear.
What do you think should be the 'not stupid' prices for:
Woolback Freeshell — $365
Soft Core Rain Shirt — $450
Liberated Wool Hoodie — $450
Supermarine Shell — $575
Supermarine Anorak — $580
Soft Core Bomber — $600
Liberated Wool Peacoat — $650
Supermarine Soft Core Jacket — $790
Then could you recommend another urban techwear brand offering a similar range of outerwear at 'not stupid' prices?
I'm genuinely curious; I'd honestly like people who think Outlier is overpriced to offer alternative suggestions and what they're buying instead.
I have to disagree on that there jackets are overpriced, they are probably the most bang for your money that Outlier offers. Especially when you consider how small of a company they are. But the $450 for liberated wool hoodie is insane!!
Agreed its pricey, but man I'd fork that money over right now if they re-upped them or came out with a revised version. It's probably the thing I want the most next.
Really??? Over all the other garments you could get. Outlier wise, I would get a pair of pants and a merino hoodie, or just a full blown coat before I drop that much. Shit you could get a Stephan Schneider jacket for around that much.
Looking at the fabrics they're using I'd say the outerwear is overpriced. Once you get into the $650 range you're competing against big boys like Veilance, SISP, Isaora, ACR to some extent, and some of the lesser known guys like Klattermusen and Tilak. At $650 I think there are better alternatives to outerwear.
Pants... They're still doing well in the pants department even with the price hike.
Um, I'd like to just say all of those, but maybe it's just a difference in opinion based on what perceived market Outlier puts themselves in with the vast majority of their products. I think the issue lies in their core products being directly comparable to common alternatives (ie. $98 for a decent shirt, $200 for a pair of jeans is very reasonable), while most of the outerwear is more in the high fashion price range.
As for the Supermarine shell and anorak -- who wants to pay $600 for a rain shell that soaks through in 20 minutes? You can't charge premium prices for inferior technology. Abe's 'highly engineered paper bag' shtick may apply to a $100 Marmot Precip, but there are plenty of companies that do rain shells that don't look like plastic bags and if they do cost $600 (and most don't), they're gonna keep you dry.
And $450 for a rain shirt? Granted it's an experimental piece but c'mon - how overly specific can you get? When are you gonna wear that thing? It's insulated so it has to be fall/winter and anything below 40-50 degrees and you're probably gonna want more than just a wool lined shirt and anything over 60 and you're gonna overheat. I'm not paying $450 for a shirt that I'll only wear if it so happens to rain during a specific 30 day period of the year. I'm happy to pay $200 for dungarees because I'll wear them 100+ times a year. There's no value for the money in pieces like this, regardless of whether or not they're experimental.
$450 for a merino hoodie -- seen and have plenty that aren't anywhere close to that.
$400 poncho... wat.
Etc, etc, etc.
As for alternatives; Aether, Nau, Mission Workshop, etc make stuff I like and wear. Isaora has comparable pieces that are more expensive, but plenty that are less and you can pretty easily find it on sale.
Yeah, but I feel like I have as many slims and OG's as I need in addition to my Baldwin denim when I need to wear actual jeans.
I love the stretchy wool blend and liner they use in my liberated pea coat. I'd take a hoodie in that material no questions asked. I actually am returning their double fine hoodie. Wasn't impressed for once. I like the drop hem, but small covers my entire backside... no thanks. Bought a Torre from MW and think its a better piece.
Anybody notice the Merino/CO silent re-up?! Two days, three re-ups with NO email or Twitter blast. They made some longs this time as well...
Point out a few items the "big boys" are offering at $650 then. ACR's winter outerwear starts above $800. ACR doesn't offer one insulated jacket; there's nothing really equivalent to the Outlier's supermarine soft core shirt ($450) or jacket ($790). Veilance's comparable top of the line are the Insulated Field Jacket ($1,200) and Patrol IS Coat ($1,700). What Veilance is offering at $550 (Moins Composite Jacket i.e. nylon hoodie with wool panels) and $700 (Scend Jacket i.e. technical wool hoodie) is barely equivalent to what Outlier had at $370 (Woolback Freeshell) or $450 (Liberated Wool Hoodie). Isaora ranges from $650 to $900 (or $1400!). SISP prices are similarly expensive. Of course there are other ways to evaluate the value of clothes (construction, fashion, rarity etc) but just looking at the fabrics and MSRP of the big boys it's hard to agree that Outlier is overpriced.
ps Klattermusen and Tilak are outdoor sports outerwear not really competing with Outlier and their ilk. If we bring Tilak into the conversation then we might as well include Patagonia, TNF, Arc'teryx mainline etc and then, by the msrp metric, all the big boys are overpriced.
pps You're probably buying Veilance, SISP and Isaora on sale. More on that below.
I purposely linked to each piece so there would be none of this nonsense. A liberated wool hoodie is not a merino hoodie. To be exact Outlier offers a
Merino Hoodie — $275
Supermarine shirt or jacket — $275
Supermarine (aka Etaproof aka Ventile) is amazing technology. Breathable, water resistant, comfortable — it's all that and more**. You can wear a supermarine anorak all through spring, summer and fall; I wore mine up to January with a sweater. It was 15oC and raining yesterday so I brought the supermarine soft core jacket (100g Primaloft insulation) out of storage and wore it with just a tee. Last winter I wore it in -15 and snowing weather with just a tee as well. I wish Outlier would release another soft core rain shirt as I would buy it in a heartbeat (I've asked repeatedly and was told it's unlikely to come back). 80g Primaloft with uninsulated side, back and underarm panels, it would be the perfect balance and I'd wear it from August to April. It's arguably the best value for money in the Outlier outerwear archives especially when you consider it cost $450, the Outlier Soft Core Jacket was $790, an Acronym Etaproof jacket is €961 and a Nigel Cabourn Ventile insulated parka is £2400...
**If you don't believe me when I say supermarine cotton is awesome, perhaps you'd rather hear Aether extol its virtues.
Aether's prices are similar to Outlier's. Aether has an etaproof jacket for $365 (originally $475) and jackets are priced as high as $825. Likewise, Mission Workshop has similar prices; the merinos are little cheaper ($235/$265 compared to Outlier's $275 for the hoodie/jacket), the schoeller shells are a bit more expensive ($385/$415 compared to Outlier's $275/$365 for the freeshell/woolback) and there is a woolback uninsulated field jacket for $745. Nau's prices are generally $100-$200 cheaper than Outlier's (and Aether's and MW's) but I consider its aesthetic — nylon and goose down panels — to be different from the others. If you prefer Aether and MW, and don't think they are "stupidly priced," that's great. I don't either and simply hold Outlier to the same standard.
It appears a lot of the people who think Outlier is overpriced are used to paying sale prices for other brands. Well I could launch into an admonition that discount culture is a bad thing but I'm pragmatic and would be the first to admit that seasonal sales are a strong allure for preferring alternatives to Outlier. On the flip side though, if you're always waiting long enough to get 'overpriced' items for cheap, then Outlier's As-Is Sales are probably the best bang for your buck in the biz.
After looking at the suggested alternatives, I still stand by the opinion that Outlier outerwear isn't overpriced.
Wish they offered pants in tech fabrics that are comparable in fit to the nyco slims. Nyco shorts would be rad in s/s too
You could do it yourself; get a pair of nycos and have them hemmed into shorts lol. Or get one of the more technical pants and find a tailor who can recut it the way you like.
I've been experimenting a bit with pants this Fall. I got a few from the Massif clearance sale and tried out the different models. Most I didn't care for but the wool pants I like so I took them to a tailor and got them hemmed and tapered to fit like the outlier slim dungarees. Then I ordered a second pair that I got to fit like the kierens. And now I have a third pair, not sure what to do with them — maybe try for a climbers fit or hem to shorts lol? I considering getting more as $40—$60 for water resistant tech pants, all with diamond crotch gussets and articulated knees, is an amazing deal (even though they aren't as wear-resistant, nor dry as quickly, as the outlier pants I'm replacing)
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