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Open or closed quarters?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by antirabbit, Sep 10, 2007.

  1. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I also like them open, but don't know which ones you are talking about.

    He posts pics of himself in WAWN.
     
  2. Sator

    Sator Senior member

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    In general, closed quarters tend to make a suit look a bit more formal and serious whereas the open quarters appear more dynamic.

    I actually like to talk about a 'cutaway' front on a lounge, just as on various types of morning coats and dress coats. The cutaway was always meant to be a sporting detail. Of course, originally it was purely practical for riding but aesthetically too, it does give any coat a more dynamic appearance - lounges included. Frock coats by comparison always look more serious because of the lack of the cutaway front.
     
  3. Cantabrigian

    Cantabrigian Senior member

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    Finally, consider the quarters in relation to the front/back balance. On cuts that are longer in front, open quarters look really good, and closed are a disaster. When the fronts are level or shorter, closed can look good.

    I'm not trying to be annoying - just trying to get straight what the term means but doesn't front-back balance refer to how well the jacket follows the chest & back (e.g. no bunching) rather that the relative lengths the front and the back (distance from the bottom edge to the ground).
     
  4. dopey

    dopey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I'm not trying to be annoying - just trying to get straight what the term means but doesn't front-back balance refer to how well the jacket follows the chest & back (e.g. no bunching) rather that the relative lengths the front and the back (distance from the bottom edge to the ground).
    I meant to avoid technical terms because few people, and certainly not me, know what they mean. Even if some people do know what they mean, others disagree about or are ignorant of the meaning, making the term useless for us non-tailors. In any event, I goofed. I meant to say relative length, comparing the front and the sides/back. And for the record, I have no idea whether I used the term correctly in the technical sense - I was thinking in English, not Tailor, and that is what came out.
     
  5. grimslade

    grimslade Senior member

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    I'm not trying to be annoying - just trying to get straight what the term means but doesn't front-back balance refer to how well the jacket follows the chest & back (e.g. no bunching) rather that the relative lengths the front and the back (distance from the bottom edge to the ground).

    That is my understanding.
     
  6. Cantabrigian

    Cantabrigian Senior member

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  7. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I'm not trying to be annoying - just trying to get straight what the term means but doesn't front-back balance refer to how well the jacket follows the chest & back (e.g. no bunching) rather that the relative lengths the front and the back (distance from the bottom edge to the ground).

    It is both: the relative lengths of front and back affect (among other things) how well a coat follows the contours of the body.
     
  8. Dragon

    Dragon Senior member

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    I don't think the openness of the quarters is something to be thought about in isolation. Certain cuts seem to look better with more closed quarters. The more columnar, Roman silhouettes, for example. Same for the straight and narrow 50s sack look.

    +1
     
  9. a tailor

    a tailor Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    imho a jacket with closed quarters looks like a uniform.
     
  10. CBtoNYC

    CBtoNYC Member

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    Is it at all possible for a tailor to open up the quarters a bit on a jacket that, in my opinion, look to be too closed?

    It's a linen OTR sport coat that I didn't spend a whole lot on, so I'm willing to take a risk on it...

    If it is possible, about how much should it cost (at a decent NYC tailor)?
     
  11. Despos

    Despos Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Open.

    But I'm just saying that because I'm Manton's lapdog. Or fanboy. Or whatever they called me.


    mini me-nton

    Open quarters are nice unless they show the trouser waistband. That is visually unappealing. I want a bit of overlap to the second lower button

    I like the closed fronts Raymond Burr wore as Perry Mason or Desi Arnez on I Love Lucy.
    Very distinct styling.
     
  12. grimslade

    grimslade Senior member

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    mini me-nton
    .


    Nice. And to think I once considered giving you some business...
     
  13. DocHolliday

    DocHolliday Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Now that this thread is back, I will seize the opportunity to post this pic:

    [​IMG]

    +1 for open quarters.
     
  14. Despos

    Despos Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    The front quarters can be opened. The cost would depend on the complexity of the internal construction. Fused or canvassed, pick stitching etc.

    Proper balance is reflected in the front/back length. Short front; back is longer than front.
    Short back; back is longer than front.

    Good balance; the front is a touch longer than the back and lays in against the body.
    The back lays close to the body and does not flare out or hike up.
     
  15. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Senior member

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    I don't think it's the openess of the quaters that makes that coat look unusual. It's more the button stance. There are two buttons, neither of which is at the waist of the coat. As I recall, the traditional way to wear such coats was to button both buttons. Doing that, the quarters would close up a bit.

    Here's another "paddock" button coat, but unlike the DoW, who closes the botton of the pair in that photograph, I have only the top button closed, and the quarters...while open...are not quite so as his:

    [​IMG]

    I agree, I don't like a perfect X. The opening above the button should be a little wider than the opening below. I really don't like it when the opening below is wider. That makes the coat look out of balance in the opposite way: long front, short back.

    Isnt that why better suit makers put much time and effort into the front of pants?

    Can we get a pic (Manton) of what the ideal looks like?


    Here's a DeBoise jacket that I think strikes a happy medium:

    [​IMG]


    - B
     
  16. Winot

    Winot Senior member

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    IMO this is close to perfect.
     
  17. JLibourel

    JLibourel Senior member

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    I think a lot of the open quarters on currently fashionable jackets overdo it. I don't like anything that exposes the shirt and tie above the waistband, which seems quite a common occurence with many of today's slim-cut styles.
     
  18. Sator

    Sator Senior member

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    I think a lot of the open quarters on currently fashionable jackets overdo it. I don't like anything that exposes the shirt and tie above the waistband, which seems quite a common occurence with many of today's slim-cut styles.

    Yes, but the amount of cut away on the skirt fronts is always fairly trivial compared to this:

    [​IMG]

    However, it is for a three piece. So much for Savile Row coats having no cut away on the skirt fronts. And yes, it is "cut away" because I have seen old tailoring texts which seem to think about it in such terms. On lounge coats intended to be worn worn as semi-formal dress I have seen patterns with clear cut away fronts of the skirt in the manner of a morning coat ("cutaway" in American English). I have no idea why we call the part of the coat we are discussing the "quarters", when the usual term for that part of a coat is the "skirt".
     
  19. Dewey

    Dewey Senior member

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    Can the same jacket have closed quarters on one man, and open quarters on another? Assuming the men are close to the same size. I wonder if certain body shapes will close or open the quarters of a jacket more than they were intended. If you have a long back, will the quarters open or close on most RTW; if you have a short back, will they close, etc.
     
  20. Sator

    Sator Senior member

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    Again, the discussing makes more sense it we talk about the skirt (rather than this "quarters" business). A coat cut with more fullness/flair in the skirt and minimal cut away to the front is less likely to open at the front either a consequence of moving around or due to the wearer's prominent seat.
     

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