Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Sander, Jul 15, 2014.
I go to Napoli this week, I'll take better pictures after that.
The length really depends on tailor's style. Some tailors tend to cut long jacket, some of them short. For me the length of the jacket above by Ciardi is too short. This jacket should be around 1.5-2cm longer, this will make the jacket more balanced. Unfortunately majority of tailors in Naples don't care that much about the fit. Around 5-6 tailors that i tried in Naples only 1 fitted a good jacket. That's why i stopped to go Naples and headed to elsewhere (in south of Italy)
Did you ask to make them longer?
Which is the one you liked?
Of course ! Length can be fixed easily during the 2nd or 3rd suit. First suit may be long/short, it's not a big issue. My comments with respect to tailors in Naples is general and is about overall fitting. The tailors in Naples don't care that much about perfect fit. You can see in this thread on some postings very good fitting back. You will rarely see a Napolitan tailor fitting that good the back of the suit and underarms. There are also examples where Napolitan tailors can't cut a straight shoulder but it's bumping somewhere. Napolitans say this is because they are cutting a soft jacket but this is nothing to do with that.
In Naples Nunzio Pirozzi fitted the best jacket for me. I didn't like that much his style. He's doing a very imposing upper part (shoulder, chest, lapels) and very open quarters. The quarters are not like Liverano style which is open but round. Pirozzi is doing quite straight open quarters. I asked him to make more round quarters for second suit but it was not exactly what i wanted. Given that i found a great tailor, i stop going to Pirozzi as well.
In my opinion, you don't go to Naples for a perfect back for exemple, if you want that it's better to go in England or in Paris. Which is important in my opinion is to go to a tailor which you love is style, it's never a good think to try making thing different.
Quick pictures of the latest orders.
Well, this is the Ciardi's jacket :
And the Tofani's :
Out of curiosity, what do you mean by a "perfect" back?
I think they both look pretty great, and the fabric choices are awesome.
Thanks you very much. I mean a totally clean back, without any excess of fabric so without wrinkle. Here, there is not so much wrinkle, but a little bit. Napolitan tailor tend to correct everything which is horizontal, but not little vertival thing. Thate give a jacket more comfortable, but with little imperfection.
From what little I know, a perfectly wrinkle-free jacket back while "robo-posed" is probably too tight in real life.
We all need to remember that the static-posed photos we see on this board only tell part of the story about any given garment. A really well-cut jacket should allow freedom of movement.
Surely this means a bit of extra material creating folds here and there while in a resting position.
+1 my first "bespoke" coat looks great but I can't even tie my shoes in it. I would rather look a bit rumpled at still be able to move about.
I think you might be misinterpreting what people say about drape. There are lots of clean cut suits with room for movement. See some of the threads at Cutter & Tailor or @jefferyd's work.
It's true that many Neapolitan tailors are a bit sloppy with their work. I don't think it has anything to do with movement, sprezzatura, or vertical vs. horizontal folds. The work is just kind of sloppy. Doesn't mean someone can't still look good in their Neapolitan suit, but maybe something to keep in mind if you're a stickler for perfection and precise tailoring.
None of Tofani's work appeared sloppy to me but to fair I don't consider myself an expert and perhaps you were referring to others.
You can have a very well fitted comfotable jacket with perfectly fitting back. It's just question of cutting the back perfectly. What makes a jacket comfortable is not just freedom in the back. You can have the back perfect but if you cut the arm hole perfectly and if you allow some space on and under the chest (where you have canvas and jacket takes good shape by default) then your jacket will be comfortable.
There are different ways to achieve freedom of movement. Cifonelli cuts a jacket that is so close on the front of the body that it looks like you might not have any room to spare. However, if you look at the back, there is drape around each of the shoulder blades that provides sufficient movement so that the jacket is incredibly comfortable despite the close cut in front. The back might look "messy" to some, but those fabric folds are what allows movement while retaining the close cut in the front. Others, like Hunstman for example, might have a perfectly flat back without a wrinkle in site, but the front of the jacket has some room through the chest that provides the same freedom of movement.
Here is an attempt to show what I mean:
Cifonelli front: closely cut, form fitting:
Cifonelli back (an overcoat, but nonetheless you can see the fabric folded by the shoulder blades):
Huntsman front (a bit of drape apparent by the under arms even when the jacket is unbuttoned):
Huntsman back (almost perfectly flat throughout):
So multiple ways to accomplish freedom of movement. These are just two examples. And it might make one part of the jacket look "messy" to some I suppose.
Separate names with a comma.