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ImTheGroom

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Indians aren't european descendants. You and I are.

To argue that that means I must do what is done in the UK, or Europe, however, or to argue that, at this point, North American cultures are subcultures of European culture, is absurd. Descended from? Yes. Influenced by? Yes. A subset of? Certainly not. The wayward child of? Xenophobic, and offensive.

Considering that you completely diverted from your initial researched choice of dark weird colour palette into exactly what I first suggested and then when I pointed this out previously in response to your wrong assumption you immediately disappeared from the discussion, I think the advice was very valuable to you
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We all learn and become informed, but as many have said before me there is no one more dangerous as a preacher then the converted, and having stumbled across some pictures of you in what I believe were home setting (you posted a link to a fundrising page I believe) and then reading and understanding that your research in what to wear at your wedding as now raised your interested so much in formal wear that you seek to wear it at every possible occasions, even the ones where you will probably be the only one and stand out, may confirm this exact statement.

Again, having no substantive response, you resort to personal attacks. Many people suggested many colours of tie, and many of those people suggested something red. I paid attention to the advice of those that I found credible, and polite. I tried those options, and decided upon what I believed looked best. It was, in fact, @MrDaniels who had the largest hand in convincing me to wear the tie I did. I should also point out that the fact that I substituted a waistcoat that was ready at hand, for pictures, when I did not yet have the proper, grey one I planned to purchase all along, confused you into believing I had planned to wear a black, evening waistcoat, with my morning coat, which was never the case. As to the occasions when I have worn formal wear, they include my wife's office Christmas party (at which formal attire was encouraged, and my wife felt it would make a good impression) private black tie events, the opera (with family who were similarly attired) and once for a best-dressed contest, the spirit of which was to stand out, in which I won first place.

The fund raising page has become necessary, because my predicted revenue for the past five quarters was much higher than the actual revenue. Such is the nature of being self employed.
 

MrDaniels

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I don't know why you make personal attacks against me every time I disagree with you. I don't recall having ever said anything insulting towards you, and if I did I apologize. Yet whenever you disagree with me about something you attribute my opinion to the elitism and patrician upbringing you assume I have, even though you've never met me and know nothing about my life. And now you sarcastically praise my modesty and call me unreasonable in the same post, for what reason I do not know. I have no beef with you, and I don't understand why you are trying to start one with me.

Back to your post...I don't think the tuxedo "started" in the US. Even if it did, that is neither a necessary nor sufficient condition for it to be more acceptable here for any given occasion. The Oxford comma (when trying to diffuse a tense situation on the Internet, ALWAYS bring up the Oxford comma) is less common in British English, despite its name. Jeans were an American invention, but they are more appropriate to wear to a pub in London than would be a tailcoat, which was invented in England. I think you get my point.


I don't have a beef with you personally as I don't know you. What I have an issue with is your elitism when young men come in here and you focus more on your personal fashion code than what makes sense for the wedding the groom is planning. If a guy dresses at your standards and your level he is not going to need to come here for advice.

And if you want to talk about sarcasm and personal attacks, physician-heal thyself! Look at how you just came at me about the Tuxedo history "there is so much fail here" when I was not even engaging you in the discussion. And then you wonder why the discourse is not going to be pleasant?
 

MrDaniels

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Everyone needs to take a deep breath and count to pi. If there's any more calling people unreasonable, racist, and other ad hominem bullshit I will delete all the posts from post 1257 onwards.


You are right, and I removed the unnecessary portion of the comment.
 

marcodalondra

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To argue that that means I must do what is done in the UK, or Europe, however, or to argue that, at this point, North American cultures are subcultures of European culture, is absurd.  Descended from?  Yes.  Influenced by?  Yes.  A subset of? Certainly not.  The wayward child of?  Xenophobic, and offensive.


Again, having no substantive response, you resort to personal attacks.  Many people suggested many colours of tie, and many of those people suggested something red.  I paid attention to the advice of those that I found credible, and polite.   I tried those options, and decided upon what I believed looked best.  It was, in fact, @MrDaniels
 who had the largest hand in convincing me to wear the tie I did.  I should also point out that the fact that I substituted a waistcoat that was ready at hand, for pictures, when I did not yet have the proper, grey one I planned to purchase all along, confused you into believing I had planned to wear a black, evening waistcoat, with my morning coat, which was never the case.  As to the occasions when I have worn formal wear, they include my wife's office Christmas party (at which formal attire was encouraged, and my wife felt it would make a good impression) private black tie events, the opera (with family who were similarly attired) and once for a best-dressed contest, the spirit of which was to stand out, in which I won first place.

The fund raising page has become necessary, because my predicted revenue for the past five quarters was much higher than the actual revenue.  Such is the nature of being self employed.


I was not criticising, you fundraising page, just noting the extremely casual nature of what you seem to be wearing off formal events, again backing the converted /preacher example.

In any case, as you insist, I read and understood the waistcoat you posted at one point would not be worn with the tailcoat, but the wedding tie you were considering were very dark, with black hue or something (I cannot recall exactly but we can easily go back within this thread....) , and it was after I first posted example of burgundy/red ties that others start supporting my example, so you admit it or not, it originated from me and within a couple of post you were seeing light before you then finally completely agreed.. (All in the history of this thread). I have also no beef with you but find it really annoying the ever present advice based on your research and personal choice that clearly start showing the converted/preacher attitude, so to balance this thread and other I may feel the need to, I will add another perspective and will continue doing so.
 
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unbelragazzo

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I don't have a beef with you personally as I don't know you. What I have an issue with is your elitism when young men come in here and you focus more on your personal fashion code than what makes sense for the wedding the groom is planning. If a guy dresses at your standards and your level he is not going to need to come here for advice.


The main purpose of the thread is for people to express their opinions about what is appropriate to wear at weddings. If somebody comes in determined to rent tuxedos and all they want is a referral to the finest rental house in Montana or Indiana (your references, not mine) and some generous soul is willing and able to provide it, then fine. But I don't think that should stop us from stating what we think looks best and is most appropriate. In fact, here you are dictating from on high that a waist covering must be worn:

I think the waist needs a covering, but I prefer a vest to a cummerbund.


And a vest even, the unobtanium of RTW black tie....

And if you want to talk about sarcasm and personal attacks, physician-heal thyself! Look at how you just came at me about the Tuxedo history "there is so much fail here" when I was not even engaging you in the discussion. And then you wonder why the discourse is not going to be pleasant?


Sorry if my off-hand Internet speak offended you. My comment might have been snarky and unproductive - although I think within the culture of this forum, it barely registers - but it definitely wasn't sarcastic or a personal attack. As for whether you were engaging me in the discussion, it's a forum, not a private email chain. It's also a thread I started, so I get emails every time anyone posts. I apologize if you didn't find my phrasing respectful enough, but I reserve the right to respond to any posts that I want in my own thread.
 
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MrDaniels

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Well, god forbid some slob wears RTW formal wear! What, did his personal tailor DIE or something? Imagine his poor valet having to attend to such sub-standard garments!
 

unbelragazzo

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Well, god forbid some slob wears RTW formal wear! What, did his personal tailor DIE or something? Imagine his poor valet having to attend to such sub-standard garments!


I assume this is directed at me? If you order something bespoke or MTM, the vest is no longer hard to get. I said RTW because I assumed that you would be suggesting something RTW, since the poster to whom you were responding had a RTW budget.
 

ShawnBC

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I never thought a simple question regarding proper wedding attire might lead to these kind of heated discussions. Welcome to StyleForum I guess!
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culverwood

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Getting back to the topic - It has not been mentioned recently but leave yourself plenty of time to sort out what you are going to wear and get it done early. As the wedding day approaches time flies and there is much else top do and tailors may not be able to work to you schedule or stock of RTW may be thin.

By the way - Anglican Church weddings in the UK to be legal must be between 8 am and 6 pm so are always day time events. I understand this came from being able to see that the bride under the veil (or the groom for that matter) was the person you were supposed to marry not a substitute which might not be possible by candle light.
 

ShawnBC

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Regarding cufflinks and studs, is there some sort of rule or protocol regarding the material and hardware used? Is onyx reserved for black tie and MOP for white tie or could one wear MOP studs and cufflinks in black tie attire?

In the same line of thought, how do people feel about gold vs silver? I love a little touch of gold on the studs and cufflinks (let's say onyx with gold plated hardware) but would it be too much? Should I stick with silver hardware?

And what about the pocket square? Should one stick with a soporific plain white PS or is there a way to incorporate something with patterns yet make it look good? I know black tie is about simple perfection and not standing out, but this picture from the Rake mag struck me and I was attracted to the idea of a black/white pattern PS ever since. What is SF thoughts on the matter?

 

ShawnBC

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BTW please forgive me for all those newbs questions, and let me say that I am grateful for the time people take to answer!
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ImTheGroom

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Regarding cufflinks and studs, is there some sort of rule or protocol regarding the material and hardware used? Is onyx reserved for black tie and MOP for white tie or could one wear MOP studs and cufflinks in black tie attire?

In the same line of thought, how do people feel about gold vs silver? I love a little touch of gold on the studs and cufflinks (let's say onyx with gold plated hardware) but would it be too much? Should I stick with silver hardware?

And what about the pocket square? Should one stick with a soporific plain white PS or is there a way to incorporate something with patterns yet make it look good? I know black tie is about simple perfection and not standing out, but this picture from the Rake mag struck me and I was attracted to the idea of a black/white pattern PS ever since. What is SF thoughts on the matter?

You can use MoP, or Onyx, with Black Tie. Same for silver and gold. All down to your personal taste. I think silver is sleeker, and just fits into the black/white palette, but it's completely a matter of preference.

Pocket squares, as you say, white is the standard. If I was going to change it up, I would do it with another solid colour, rather than a pattern. A pattern could be done well, but it is more difficult to succeed, and has the potential to be a bigger failure, if it's not done well. If your questions are about Tuxedo details, specifically, you might also try this thread for opinions, and suggestions:

http://www.styleforum.net/t/275650/the-state-of-black-tie-your-observations/2670
 

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